Dialect: graphics for Charts, Diagrams, Graphing ?
[1/14] from: ddalley::idirect::com at: 16-Nov-2001 11:40
hello, REBOLs:
Has anyone made a View graphics dialect, one useful enough to do easy
charting or graphs? I checked the site, but I didn't find anything there.
In the meantime, can anyone suggest how to do simple bar charts of
percentages?
Can RT do a graphing tutorial?
Thank you,
Donald
[2/14] from: media:quazart at: 16-Nov-2001 11:54
Hi Donald,
Is this a pressing matter?
glass will easily be used for such a purpose...
-MAx
[3/14] from: martin:middleton:speechworks at: 16-Nov-2001 12:06
I've actually started playing with this, but I'm a looong way from having
anything useful at the moment. :(
At 11:40 AM 11/16/2001, you wrote:
>hello, REBOLs:
>Has anyone made a View graphics dialect, one useful enough to do easy
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
>[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
>subject, without the quotes.
- martin
[4/14] from: ddalley:idirect at: 16-Nov-2001 15:23
Hi, MAx:
On 16-Nov-01, Media wrote:
> Is this a pressing matter?
Not exactly, but...
I am working on a View project, to learn how to use it.
The program has a practical purpose, so I would like to
keep it moving along.
> glass will easily be used for such a purpose...
Ok. Is glass a dialect? I was never sure what it is.
Does it work now, and where is it?
--
---===///||| Donald Dalley |||\\\===---
The World of AmiBroker Support
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ddalley
UIN/ICQ#: 65203020
[5/14] from: media:quazart at: 16-Nov-2001 15:59
Glass is a complete gui system...
its main attraction is its dynamicity...
Glass is still alpha, will become beta next week (a selected group will
beta) and most probably if all goes well, will be public beta the week
after.
For doing bar charts, it would really be simple to do in glass... but VID
is also quite easy for such a task... is there a reason you're not using it
(VID)?
-MAx
[6/14] from: media:quazart at: 16-Nov-2001 16:08
Hi,
concerning glass, I forgot to add that glass sits on top of view directly...
there is no VID layer in between...
-MAx
[7/14] from: ddalley:idirect at: 16-Nov-2001 16:58
Hi, MAx:
On 16-Nov-01, Media wrote:
> Glass is a complete gui system...
> its main attraction is its dynamicity...
I thought that was what View was supposed to be.
What don't we know?
> For doing bar charts, it would really be simple to do in glass... but VID
> is also quite easy for such a task... is there a reason you're not using it
> (VID)?
I am *trying*, but, because there are only about 3 VID examples in the library
that are even remotely related to what I want to do, when my tests don't work,
it's difficult to figure out why, with no documentation in the examples. This
way, even the simple stuff is frustrating. And, since I would be blazing a new
path,...
I have been using REBOL/Core for years, but we all know that it can be pretty
difficult to interpret other's REBOL code. (I would have used View much
earlier, but I can't get it to run on my Amiga. Now I am attempting to learn
it on a PC, so I tread slowly.)
I'll have to try again, maybe over the weekend.
I do have more View questions for the list, too.
--
---===///||| Donald Dalley |||\\\===---
The World of AmiBroker Support
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ddalley
UIN/ICQ#: 65203020
[8/14] from: carl:cybercraft at: 17-Nov-2001 11:56
On 17-Nov-01, Donald Dalley wrote:
> hello, REBOLs:
> Has anyone made a View graphics dialect, one useful enough to do
> easy charting or graphs? I checked the site, but I didn't find
> anything there.
View comes with a Draw dialect - see info about it via the Desktop on
RT's Rebsite - in the Docs section.
> In the meantime, can anyone suggest how to do simple bar charts of
> percentages?
Here a quick example. Could obviously be shorter, (lots of cuts ands
pastes:), but it should put you on the right track...
REBOL []
view layout [
bar-chart: box white 100x100 effect [
draw [
pen black
fill-pen red box 0x90 9x99
fill-pen blue box 10x90 19x99
fill-pen red box 20x90 29x99
fill-pen blue box 30x90 39x99
fill-pen red box 40x90 49x99
fill-pen blue box 50x90 59x99
fill-pen red box 60x90 69x99
fill-pen blue box 70x90 79x99
fill-pen red box 80x90 89x99
fill-pen blue box 90x90 99x99
]
]
button "Change Sizes" [
bars-blk: next next bar-chart/effect/draw
forskip bars-blk 5 [
bars-blk/4/2: (random 100 - 1)
]
show bar-chart
]
button "Change Colours" [
bars-blk: next next bar-chart/effect/draw
forskip bars-blk 5 [
bars-blk/2: random 255.255.255
]
show bar-chart
]
]
> Can RT do a graphing tutorial?
> Thank you,
> Donald
--
Carl Read
[9/14] from: carl:cybercraft at: 17-Nov-2001 12:49
On 17-Nov-01, Donald Dalley wrote:
> Hi, MAx:
> On 16-Nov-01, Media wrote:
>> Glass is a complete gui system...
>> its main attraction is its dynamicity...
> I thought that was what View was supposed to be.
It is, or View + VID is anyway, (if not "complete"), but it doesn't
mean VID's the last word in a GUI for View. So, using View, (decent
docs pending:), you can create your own GUI dialect.
> What don't we know?
I hope you're being rhetorical there. (:
>> For doing bar charts, it would really be simple to do in glass...
>> but VID is also quite easy for such a task... is there a reason
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> documentation in the examples. This way, even the simple stuff is
> frustrating. And, since I would be blazing a new path,...
Yeah, because View's docs are spread out all over the place - some on
RT's website, some on their Rebsite, some on RebolForces and so on,
View's hard to begin with once you try to go beyond the simple layout
stuff. So, it's slow, but is worth the effort.
> I have been using REBOL/Core for years, but we all know that it can
> be pretty difficult to interpret other's REBOL code. (I would have
> used View much earlier, but I can't get it to run on my Amiga. Now I
> am attempting to learn it on a PC, so I tread slowly.)
> I'll have to try again, maybe over the weekend.
> I do have more View questions for the list, too.
Hopefully my little bar-chart example will help with your original
question, but keep the questions coming either way. It's what the
list is for.
--
Carl Read
[10/14] from: ddalley:idirect at: 17-Nov-2001 3:05
Hi, Carl:
On 17-Nov-01, Carl Read wrote:
> It is, or View + VID is anyway, (if not "complete"), but it doesn't
> mean VID's the last word in a GUI for View.
Ahh, now I get it.
> So, using View, (decent docs pending:), you can create your
> own GUI dialect.
Ha! You presume I can do this?! Now, THAT's funny! ;^)
> > What don't we know?
> I hope you're being rhetorical there. (:
No, not at all. Although I have seen references on the list about something
called "Glass", until a few seconds ago, I had no idea what it is or what it
does. I don't think I am the only one on the ML who doesn't know that, either.
> > when my tests don't work, it's difficult to figure out why, with no
> > documentation in the examples. This way, even the simple stuff is
> > frustrating.
> Yeah, because View's docs are spread out all over the place - some on
> RT's website, some on their Rebsite, some on RebolForces and so on,
No, I mean that most of the program samples that I saw on the REBOL site have
no comments at all in their code, to document what *exactly* is going on. This
makes it somewhat more difficult to learn by example. I can't write like that.
Some programs don't need explaining, obviously; some parts, at least, do.
> View's hard to begin with once you try to go beyond the simple layout
> stuff. So, it's slow, but is worth the effort.
It's my training wheels that slow me down!
> Hopefully my little bar-chart example will help with your original
> question, but keep the questions coming either way. It's what the
> list is for.
I'm sure it will. I'll have a look at it ASAP. Thanks!
--
---===///||| Donald Dalley |||\\\===---
The World of AmiBroker Support
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ddalley
UIN/ICQ#: 65203020
[11/14] from: carl:cybercraft at: 17-Nov-2001 21:49
On 17-Nov-01, Donald Dalley wrote:
>>> when my tests don't work, it's difficult to figure out why, with
>>> no documentation in the examples. This way, even the simple stuff
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> site have no comments at all in their code, to document what
> *exactly* is going on.
Ah, yes, I agree entirely. Just like my bar-chart script. (: There's
the Catch 22 of being told "The script library is one of the best
ways to learn REBOL" when you can't understand a script until you
have a reasonable understanding of REBOL to begin with...
As to non-commented scripts. Well, I find code easier to write than
describe, which is quite common I think.
The "HowTo"s on RT's website are well done though. It's just there's
not enough of them, let alone ones for View and VID.
--
Carl Read
[12/14] from: bpaddock:csonline at: 17-Nov-2001 6:34
> Has anyone made a View graphics dialect, one useful enough to do easy
> charting or graphs? I checked the site, but I didn't find anything there.
Some one should port Ploticus to Rebol. Take a look at
http://ploticus.sf.net/ .
[13/14] from: jasonic:panix at: 17-Nov-2001 15:50
> > No, I mean that most of the program samples that I saw on the REBOL
> > site have no comments at all in their code, to document what
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> ways to learn REBOL" when you can't understand a script until you
> have a reasonable understanding of REBOL to begin with...
Titling and Commenting are fine arts unto themselves. Apart from much needed
in-line comments throughout the library examples, what would be really great
is more 'live' documentation like:
http://www.rebol.com/view/docs/../demos/easy-vid.r
Being able to click on the gray highlighted source code examples and have
the real results pop up like that while following a presenter's narrative
thread is something teachers and computer literacy evangelists and
developers dream of! REBOL could make itself incredibly attractive to
schools and others if it were developed just even a little bit further in
these directions.
My wish-list suggestions:
- shell integrated:
make it easier to keep one's place while trying variations live also
make it easier to more experienced Rebolers to add/edit comments
- comments allowed [with hide/show/edit/add buttons]
- publishing considerations [print to HTML, PDF, Vanilla {Snips} library,
REBOLeasy-? format]
- richer cut'n'paste features, for example the live gray boxes.
- syntax color highlighting
- "fold" option to expand/contract code the same way MS IE handles XML,
Mathematica Notebooks and Scintilla all use
- automatic hyperlinking of objects, code etc to allow one to explore code
and contents. Preferably as named buttons showing source, probe,
object-viewer info for whatever word is selected at the time button is
clicked.
yes one can fire up a test editor to get syntax highlighting and open
multiple REBOL sessions, type 'source 'probe etc. But one has lost the
presentation ability. I am looking forward to see how well Glass can make
what I describe above easier to implement.
I know the Python edu-sig folks are moving steadily down this road right
now.
They still lack the simple GUI though. They would die if they could see
http://www.rebol.com/view/docs/../demos/easy-vid.r in action. Especially the
clear hypercardi-sh structure it offers. Brilliant.
wxPython does this already and PythonCard is simplifying wxPython use.
But still a lot more code and obfuscation in the way relative to REBOL, even
though Python is truly one of the most *readable* fun powerful languages
anywhere.
- Jason
[14/14] from: ddalley:idirect at: 20-Nov-2001 12:08
Hello, Jason:
On 17-Nov-01, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
(I wrote:)
> > > No, I mean that most of the program samples that I saw on the REBOL
> > > site have no comments at all in their code, to document what
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> is more 'live' documentation like:
> http://www.rebol.com/view/docs/../demos/easy-vid.r
Good point!
> Being able to click on the gray highlighted source code examples and have
> the real results pop up like that while following a presenter's narrative
> thread is something teachers and computer literacy evangelists and
> developers dream of! REBOL could make itself incredibly attractive to
> schools and others if it were developed just even a little bit further in
> these directions.
I didn't realize fast enough just how important this doc was, until you
pointed out its benefits. Having tried to self-learn and even teach a small
number of programming languages, over nearly 20 years, I can state you are
100% correct - instant, intelligent responses, from the point of input, makes
learning much faster. It sounds as if you have "been there - done that", too.
Good documentation takes time & effort, but it is important. Having a way for
us users to add or modify RT's docs, might speed up this necessary process.
--
---===///||| Donald Dalley |||\\\===---
The World of AmiBroker Support
http://webhome.idirect.com/~ddalley
UIN/ICQ#: 65203020
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