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Shall we code a mail client?

 [1/20] from: dvydra:orion-it at: 14-Aug-2001 19:58


I say that some of us need to choose a goal(s) and start a project or two on sourceforge.org in search of the "Killer App". I would like to make sure that we consider business (probability of success, target audience, etc.) as well as technical issues. As I said before, I need a mail client that has folders, is completly server-based, and is non-HTML so I can go to any machine and get to my folders without the click-and-wait syndrome. Still I need an HTML client as a backup. What would be the simplest way to implement this? Perhaps it would not be too difficult to screen-scrape Yahoo mail as a test or we could build a completely independent client/server solution. Let us remember that Hotmail was sold for $400M after 18 months in business. I wonder what MS thinks of that investment these days :) Anyone interested in giving this a try? Regards, David At 07:59 PM 8/14/2001 +0200, you wrote:

 [2/20] from: ammoncooke::yahoo::com at: 14-Aug-2001 22:45


There sure is. Build it they will come...(get it set up on sourceforge, mail this list, you will get some developers) Ammon ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vydra" <[dvydra--orion-it--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: [REBOL] Shall we code a mail client?
> I say that some of us need to choose a goal(s) and start a project or two > on sourceforge.org in search of the "Killer App". I would like to make
sure
> that we consider business (probability of success, target audience, etc.) > as well as technical issues. > As I said before, I need a mail client that has folders, is completly > server-based, and is non-HTML so I can go to any machine and get to my > folders without the click-and-wait syndrome. Still I need an HTML client
as
> a backup. What would be the simplest way to implement this? Perhaps it > would not be too difficult to screen-scrape Yahoo mail as a test or we
<<quoted lines omitted: 102>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
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 [3/20] from: al:bri:xtra at: 15-Aug-2001 19:58


David wrote:
> I need a mail client that has folders, is completly server-based, and is
non-HTML so I can go to any machine and get to my folders without the click-and-wait syndrome. Still I need an HTML client as a backup. What would be the simplest way to implement this? Perhaps it would not be too difficult to screen-scrape Yahoo mail as a test or we could build a completely independent client/server solution. There was the rebol mail client list that was created some time ago. I developed my module software to form a part of the foundation for that project. I can't recall the address (I unsubscribed from it a while ago). It was on eGroups, IIRC, which is now yahoo groups. Searching Yahoo groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=rebol&ss=1 returned 12 email lists about Rebol. I can't afford the time and resources at the moment to develop software for this project. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://zen.scripterz.org

 [4/20] from: robbo1mark:aol at: 15-Aug-2001 4:23


The REBMAIL project still exists at Yahoo groups whose URL is http://groups.yahoo.com If you search for REBOL groups REBMAIL project should appear. If you read through the mail archives this project started about 18 months ago with gusto and even Carl Sassenrath subscribed and contributed an outline document / specification for all the features he felt were required for a world class mail client. This project fizzled out about a year ago without producing anything concrete except bits & pieces of foundation scripts. Maybe existing Mail clients are of sufficient quality that the world doesn't need a me-too! REBOL coded version? M Dickson In a message dated Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:11:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, David Vydra <[dvydra--orion-it--com]> writes:

 [5/20] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 15-Aug-2001 10:14


Hmm, I am not sure about server based mail storage, but I was thinking about wrapper to NS/Mozilla mail format, including their indexes. Mails are stored in plain txt format, which is good. Mozilla GUI is not all that fast, but the question is - how fast/responsive would be View interface. Server storage sounds good though It would be maybe good to have some intermediate system - user would choose which folders are local to the machine, which are left remote, replications etc stuff.... -pekr- David Vydra wrote:

 [6/20] from: deryk:iitowns at: 15-Aug-2001 16:35


> Hmm, I am not sure about server based mail storage, but I was thinking > about wrapper to NS/Mozilla mail format, including their indexes. Mails
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> have some intermediate system - user would choose which folders are > local to the machine, which are left remote, replications etc stuff....
Just a quick comment, server storage is good and exists within the IMAP protocol which afaik does not yet exist under Rebol. -- Regards, Deryk Robosson

 [7/20] from: carl:cybercraft at: 15-Aug-2001 21:33


On 15-Aug-01, Deryk Robosson wrote:
>> Hmm, I am not sure about server based mail storage, but I was >> thinking about wrapper to NS/Mozilla mail format, including their
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> Just a quick comment, server storage is good and exists within the > IMAP protocol which afaik does not yet exist under Rebol.
It's not documented in the Core2.3 guide, but does appear amongst the schemes...
>> probe next first system/schemes
[default Finger Whois Daytime SMTP POP IMAP HTTP FTP NNTP] -- Carl Read

 [8/20] from: m:koopmans2:chello:nl at: 15-Aug-2001 11:53


And appears in Core 2.5 release notes... --Maarten

 [9/20] from: philb:upnaway at: 15-Aug-2001 18:24


Holger mentiones something about it a while ago ..... -- previous message --
> I use the IMAP scheme in REBOL. (as work doesn't run a POP server, so I gues > I'm still using MS Echange in some form.) REBOLs IMAP scheme is fairly easy
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> to IMAP" book I saw for a split second somewhere last week while running > through a book shop....
REBOL's IMAP implementation supports the majority of features defined in RFC 2192 (imap:// URL standard). There were some very slight deviations, as the result of trying to stay compatible with the existing pop:// scheme. Among the supported features are searches and mailbox selection. To select a mailbox use something like p: open imap://user:[pass--server]/mailbox Depending on the file organization on the server "mailbox" may have to be specified as a file path relative to some directory (typically the user's home directory). For instance in order to access a mail folder on my Unix box I have to use p: open imap://user:[pass--server]/Mail/mailbox instead, because all mail folders are located in ~/Mail. Windows-based IMAP servers may be different. The FULL IMAP standard goes far beyond what is specified for access through URLs though. Those additional features are not supported by REBOL or other environments which access IMAP through URLs. You would lower-level access for that. Same situation as with ftp:// vs. the full FTP protocol. AFAIK sending mail is not supported by IMAP at all though. You need SMTP for that. -- Holger Kruse [holger--rebol--com] -- Original Message -- And appears in Core 2.5 release notes... --Maarten

 [10/20] from: ammoncooke:yaho:o at: 15-Aug-2001 8:13


My search results returned NO REBMAIL lists. Some one has created a mail client, well, half of one I saw here, Inlook. Who are you & where did I find it?? Could we possibly use that for a base, or just look at it to see if there is something we want? Thanks!! Ammon ----- Original Message ----- From: <[Robbo1Mark--aol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 12:23 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Shall we code a mail client?
> The REBMAIL project still exists at Yahoo groups whose URL is
http://groups.yahoo.com
> If you search for REBOL groups REBMAIL project should appear. If you read
through the mail archives this project started about 18 months ago with gusto and even Carl Sassenrath subscribed and contributed an outline document / specification for all the features he felt were required for a world class mail client. This project fizzled out about a year ago without producing anything concrete except bits & pieces of foundation scripts.
> Maybe existing Mail clients are of sufficient quality that the world
doesn't need a me-too! REBOL coded version?
> M Dickson > > In a message dated Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:11:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
David Vydra <[dvydra--orion-it--com]> writes:
> > I say that some of us need to choose a goal(s) and start a project or
two
> > on sourceforge.org in search of the "Killer App". I would like to make
sure
> > that we consider business (probability of success, target audience,
etc.)
> > as well as technical issues. > > As I said before, I need a mail client that has folders, is completly > > server-based, and is non-HTML so I can go to any machine and get to my > > folders without the click-and-wait syndrome. Still I need an HTML client
as
> > a backup. What would be the simplest way to implement this? Perhaps it > > would not be too difficult to screen-scrape Yahoo mail as a test or we
<<quoted lines omitted: 114>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
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 [11/20] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 15-Aug-2001 16:45


Hi Ammon, The cool Inlook mail client is developed by REBOLek, my good friend. You can contact him at: [weirddream--volny--cz] have fun! Cyphre

 [12/20] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 15-Aug-2001 9:53


If my mail client could only... * Give me access to multiple mail accounts. * Allow me to get read my work mail from home and my home mail from work, without erasing it from the server. * Enable me to read/import my web based mail too. * Detect spam, viruses and chain mail. * Some "macro" capability for varied signature insertion and random quotes. --Ryan David Vydra wrote:
> I say that some of us need to choose a goal(s) and start a project or two > on sourceforge.org in search of the "Killer App". I would like to make sure
<<quoted lines omitted: 109>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400

 [13/20] from: brian:hawley at: 15-Aug-2001 12:22


Ryan Cole wrote:
>If my mail client could only... >* Give me access to multiple mail accounts.
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
>* Some "macro" capability for varied signature insertion and random quotes. >--Ryan
Sounds good. Add to that: * The absolute inability to execute any kind of code contained in messages or otherwise from external sources. * Auto-filtering into folders (by parse rules?) * Enable me to read/import Eudora mailboxes and settings. Brian Hawley

 [14/20] from: dvydra:orion-it at: 15-Aug-2001 10:36


Ryan, These are all valid points. Again, I would like to get an idea how to maintain the same folders in a Web and a REBOL client? One idea is to get a provider like Yahoo or Hotmail to expose the web mail in some format that supports folders. Yahoo has POP access, but I don't think POP has folders -- am I right about this? Another idea is to build a complete Web/Rebol mail server that ISPs can install and market. Perhaps there is already a web mail sever for ISPs that we can add Rebol to. Regards, David
>* Allow me to get read my work mail from home and my home mail from work, >without erasing it from the server.
Ditto here. I programmed my mail program to copy all mail to a second mail box. Then I use Yahoo mail on the road and Eudora at home completely independently.

 [15/20] from: dvydra:orion-it at: 15-Aug-2001 10:43


Awesome, where can I buy this? I need another "weird" feature. To attach a large file to an email in such a way that it is uploaded to a server and becomes automatically available for download from my web page via a browser vs a mail attachment. - dv At 12:22 PM 8/15/2001 -0500, you wrote:

 [16/20] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 15-Aug-2001 12:08


Ah, that would be nice. I dont know stink about the mail protocols myself. I do wonder if you could just stop reading the message when you got to the attachement part. I know, not exactly what your after, but it is implementable from the client end. Anyhow worth noting as a star feature. * Allow me to download attachements apart from my regular mail. Also, I believe folders could be done on the server by implementing a path system to the subject field. Example: /Lists/Rebol/Re: [REBOL] Re: Shall we code a mail client? Of course not compatable with other clients. I suppose another way is to use multiple accounts as folders. Its all kind of messy though. Just giving you some ideas. Having your own server really would be great, but I imagine getting ISPs to switch would be tricky. --Ryan David Vydra wrote:
> Awesome, where can I buy this? > I need another "weird" feature. To attach a large file to an email in such
<<quoted lines omitted: 36>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400

 [17/20] from: deryk:iitowns at: 16-Aug-2001 9:53


> If my mail client could only... > > * Give me access to multiple mail accounts.
Most do.
> * Allow me to get read my work mail from home and my home mail from > work, without erasing it from the server.
Use IMAP.
> * Enable me to read/import my web based mail too.
Use IMAP.
> * Detect spam, viruses and chain mail.
Hope that your provider has virus scanning on their email system (Sendmail+Inflex+Mcafee uvscan work wonders).
> * Some "macro" capability for varied signature insertion and random > quotes.
Random sigs would be a cool option, yes. :) -- Regards, Deryk Robosson

 [18/20] from: ammoncooke:y:ahoo at: 16-Aug-2001 0:40


I don't think that we should try to create a server here just yet, but let us create the client, get a couple thousand copies in use--Then create the server--this would give ISP more motivation to switch. Also in creating a server it would need to be 100% compatible with other mail clients, but allow certain neat features if the mail client who is fetching mail anounces himself as capable to recieve those features. Enjoy!!(just another 2 cents) Ammon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Cole" <[ryanc--iesco-dms--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Shall we code a mail client?
> Ah, that would be nice. I dont know stink about the mail protocols
myself. I do
> wonder if you could just stop reading the message when you got to the
attachement
> part. I know, not exactly what your after, but it is implementable from
the client
> end. Anyhow worth noting as a star feature. > > * Allow me to download attachements apart from my regular mail. > > Also, I believe folders could be done on the server by implementing a path
system
> to the subject field. Example: > > /Lists/Rebol/Re: [REBOL] Re: Shall we code a mail client? > > Of course not compatable with other clients. I suppose another way is to
use
> multiple accounts as folders. Its all kind of messy though. Just giving
you some
> ideas. > > Having your own server really would be great, but I imagine getting ISPs
to switch
> would be tricky. > > --Ryan > > David Vydra wrote: > > > Awesome, where can I buy this? > > I need another "weird" feature. To attach a large file to an email in
such
> > a way that it is uploaded to a server and becomes automatically
available
> > for download from my web page via a browser vs a mail attachment. > >
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
> > >> > > >>* Allow me to get read my work mail from home and my home mail from
work,
> > >>without erasing it from the server. > > >>
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> > >> > > >>* Some "macro" capability for varied signature insertion and random
quotes.
> > >> > > >>--Ryan
<<quoted lines omitted: 13>>
> > >To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to > > >[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the
quotes.
> > > > --
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
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 [19/20] from: acme:verio at: 15-Aug-2001 19:01


Hi all, I've been hoping/wishing I could write web-based email in rebol, but with other features. The biggest problem in a cooperative project might be in deciding which features to add. High feature modularity, or at least starting out with bare bones features might be the only way to start. Sometimes I feel so enthusiastic about the potential here, I'm afraid everyone could take off in their own direction, missing out on some important benefits of cooperation and standardization. Features I wish I could have in a rebwebmail service: * Multi-user configuration, so that I could provide clients (and family and friends) with their own webmail services. Success here alone could lead to widespread adoption by other webmasters, corporations, and ISPs. * Delete, view (perhaps thumbnail), download, or forward each attachment individually. * Optionally filter incoming email to a 'spam suspect' mailbox unless the From: header has the address of a verified sender. (Eg 'verified' here could include any of the following: a) the From: address is in the user's address book; b) the sender and/or recipient has personally verified the sender's authenticity by responding to a 'please authenticate yourself' email from the rebwebmail server; c) there is some kind of user-specified password detected). * Some kind of distributable spam detection functionality, so that (when there are thousands or millions of rebwebmail servers around the country) spam positively identified by a user or agent on one server could automatically (in a matter of minutes) be filtered on all other servers. * In connection with the previous two features, an option to add a sender's address to your address book, cancel the verification request, and optionally respond to them with a 'biz card' (with your phone numbers, addresses, im/chat ids, etc) in one click. Or conversely, one click to black-hole future emails and/or report the sender as a spammer. Perhaps and option to report the sender as otherwise undesirable in the rebwebmail community. (Well, that could get interesting!) * Distributable virus/worm detection functionality, so that when a user or agent on one rebwebmail server detected a virus or worm, all servers around the country could instantly be notified. I'm using the word 'distributable' above because all servers couldn't just be networked together, but would have to communicate via some kind of underlying infrastructure for managing spam and virus/worm updates, and perhaps user authentication and user account transfers from one server to another, including mail forwarding to new email addresses. Such standards would also help make it possible for different agencies to use or build their own version of the app, yet maintain scalability, and compatibility between all servers. * Perhaps POP or IMAP features could be enhanced with a simple instant messaging service, so that one user could 1) see if another user is online and 2) request a simple p2p messaging session with that user. This would be very easy while both users were logged in to the same server, because each user's ip address would be known. Across two servers, im session request ip discovery could be attempted with a rebwebmail POP or IMAP agent on the 'remote' server. (Or, by adding distributable-ness to a reb-im user id and ip discovery protocol, users could also find each other on any rebwebmail server in the world without using POP or IMAP.) Even if this feature just remained local to one server, I think having local p2p im ip discovery on a single server would be desirable for a webmaster to have for his/her family/friends/clients. * PGP or other privacy/authentication scheme for email and/or im. A related app I'm working on in win98 is a simple smtp client with 1) POP-before-smtp authentication; 2) multiple-choice From: address and smtp server capability; 3) access to my Eudora address book; 4) optional biz card attachmnt. Part 1 is already working. (I'm not a programmer, so this is a big deal for me!) Parts 2 thru 4 and making it web based *should* be easy for me (cross fingers, and thanks to Carl S's emailer.r script). My smtp 'module' works standalone, but could of course be integrated into a rebwebmail scheme someday, if security were added. By the way, I, too sometimes use Yahoo email, but would never rely on it for a long term solution. --Ken.
>Ryan, >These are all valid points. Again, I would like to get an idea how to
<<quoted lines omitted: 25>>
>> > I say that some of us need to choose a goal(s) and start a project or two >> > on sourceforge.org in search of the "Killer App". I would like to make
sure
>> > that we consider business (probability of success, target audience, etc.) >> > as well as technical issues. >> > As I said before, I need a mail client that has folders, is completly >> > server-based, and is non-HTML so I can go to any machine and get to my >> > folders without the click-and-wait syndrome. Still I need an HTML
client as
>> > a backup. What would be the simplest way to implement this? Perhaps it >> > would not be too difficult to screen-scrape Yahoo mail as a test or we
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
>> > >> > David
____________________________ ____________________________ Ah, you hate Microsoft too! So comrade, ven do vee plan to defect?

 [20/20] from: dvydra:orion-it at: 16-Aug-2001 9:56


Ken, Democracy is a drag, but the alternatives are even worse - think Microsoft and USSR :) At 07:01 PM 8/15/2001 -0700, you wrote:

Notes
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