Dave Winer talking about web apps

[1/7] from: ddalley:idirect at: 23-Nov-2001 3:09

Hello, Max: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch" <[max--quazart--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 7:40 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Dave Winer talking about web apps

> Oh boy, don't get me started on Logo and turtles.... I'm trying to forget > that era!

I still have the Amiga LOGO that Carl wrote, so there still is a REBOL connection with LISP-type languages. Donald

[2/7] from: max:quazart at: 23-Nov-2001 5:51

----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Dalley" <[ddalley--idirect--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 3:09 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Dave Winer talking about web apps

> > Oh boy, don't get me started on Logo and turtles.... I'm trying to

forget

> > that era! > > I still have the Amiga LOGO that Carl wrote, so there still is a REBOL > connection with LISP-type languages.

I just meant that logo was one of the the first languages I learned. Logo itself I don't remember too much (its been more than 10 years since I've touched it) and I recall it being ok... but its the turtle stuff I found painfull (although recursive spirograph kind of stuff was cool to do... once it finished drawing) I had to do some projects at school which used logo and man that was a chore... actually as much work as the MS BASIC WAS... My biggest project took me 18 pages of BASIC (with a few graphic pattern genertors included in that) and three weeks of "plotting" by trial and error, to draw an 8 tower castle with shades in its towers, roofs and under the crenelations... Things change, the bad stuff gets weeded out... which is why rebol has not much in common with BASIC... (a part that its interpreted... ;-) peace :-) -MAx

[3/7] from: ddalley:idirect at: 23-Nov-2001 14:05

Hello, Max: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch" <[max--quazart--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 5:51 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Dave Winer talking about web apps

> I just meant that logo was one of the the first languages I learned. > ... but its the turtle stuff I found painfull ... I had to do some

projects

> at school which used logo and man that was a chore...

I didn't use LOGO much either, since I had my hands into COMAL. It also had similar turtle graphics and other advantages that still would hold up well today, such as its real-time syntax parser, for more reliable coding. Maybe I should have pointed out that I was refering more to REBOL's LOGO style of syntax, not anything graphic. This struck me the very first time I saw REBOL. Donald

[4/7] from: jasonic:panix at: 21-Nov-2001 17:31

http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2001/11/20#hypercardAndTheWeb and http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2001/11/19#hypercardMore ./Jason

[5/7] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Nov-2001 16:16

Hi Jason, I liked the mention of turtle graphics. Maybe because not too long ago (how could it be, as I've only been REBOLing for a few months now) I cooked up a basic Logo dialect and interpreter in REBOL. :) --Gregg

[6/7] from: max:quazart at: 22-Nov-2001 7:40

Gregg, Oh boy, don't get me started on Logo and turtles.... I'm trying to forget that era! ;-) -MAx

[7/7] from: logoreb:y:ahoo at: 22-Nov-2001 13:08

Hi MAx-- Logo was pretty powerful-- and simple. You can still find decent books that use Logo for teaching complex adaptive systems. It's too bad that turtle graphics and other educational aspects eclipsed Logo's solid reputation. Logo deserved better. I'm a bit struck at how languages that espouse simplicity are so out of favor with devlopers. Brings to mind the ridicule of Buckminster Fuller's innovations decades ago. For those of you that might not know, Carl wrote an implementation of Logo. I see more than a handful of REBOL concepts *may* have been influenced by Logo. Just a guess. As far as Dave Winer is concerned, I'm pretty sure he isn't a believer. It's a shame, because REBOL is exactly the kind of technology that ought to send Dave reeling. Over the years I've sent him a handful of e-mails and scripts that illustrate how REBOL is designed to bring apps like QuickDraw to the net. Yet Dave only seems to mention REBOL when he wants to highlight broad-based scripting support for SOAP or XML-RPC. Dave often reports on P2P stuff, so perhaps the RT Morpheus work will tip the scales in our favor. Unfortunately I didn't get a reponse from the link I sent him. In any case, RT/Morhpeus could be exactly the type of partnership that breaks things wide open for REBOL. If that happens, I'm half-expecting Dave to declare himself a longtime REBOL booster. (Pssst. Petr, this is your cue to pop-in and ask about more news about the Morpheus deal. ;^) Cheers, Ed --- Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch <[max--quazart--com]> wrote: