REBOL Browser Plugin issues
[1/17] from: ptretter:charter at: 25-Jun-2001 9:49
Regarding the blank page problem - Has anyone evidenced the same problem with the Netscape Browsers? Is this problem suspected to be related to the plugin code or the browsers themselves? Paul Tretter
[2/17] from: sterling:rebol at: 25-Jun-2001 10:12
It's an issue with how the plugin installs and sets itself up. Two different MIME types need to be used: - one for plain .r scripts with a link to them. These should be launched by REBOL directly and this works OK without the plugin installed. - one for EMBEDed REBOL code. This needs to use the plugin. We're working on getting the plugin install to configure the browser correctly on installation right now but for IE that requires writing to the registry. If you don't then the REBOL plugin can possibly end up associated with the wrong types of files. The Netscape version should be working better now because it spits out a web page that redirects the browser back to the page that you were just on. This is a temporary fix to the blank page issue. Sterling
[3/17] from: dness:home at: 25-Jun-2001 15:45
> ... > > We're working on getting the plugin install to configure the browser > correctly on installation right now but for IE that requires writing > to the registry. If you don't then the REBOL plugin can possibly end > up associated with the wrong types of files. >
If you're in figuring out how the `browser' stuff is handled in the registry, is there any chance you could produce a `switch' script that would switch the default from Netscape to IE and vice-versa? This would both solve an earlier problem I had with `browse' only pointing to the windows default browser, and it would---I suspect---be a service to the community. Of course I recognize that it may be too dangerous to dabble with...
[4/17] from: sterling:rebol at: 25-Jun-2001 14:17
That's really more of a user preference, not a programmer preference isn't it? If the user wants their HTML to open in IE it should be. If they want NS, so be it. The user is perfectly capable of changing their default browser to either one. I think it would be rather evil if you could make a script that changed the default browser to NS because your HTML shows better in that one. Then you've messed with the user system prefs. I would be very annoyed if a program did that to me. I set up my defaults carefully and like to keep them that way... don't you? Sterling
[5/17] from: ptretter:charter at: 25-Jun-2001 17:52
I noticed that the mime type was set for text and that the browser trys to open text message quite often and wondered if setting it to application type might fix the problem. Paul Tretter
[6/17] from: dness:home at: 26-Jun-2001 0:36
> That's really more of a user preference, not a programmer preference > isn't it? If the user wants their HTML to open in IE it should be.
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>> way... don't you? > Sterling
No. But I'm afraid you're missing the point a bit. In windows I have no problem using several different Browsers. Depending on purpose various of my machines have different `defaults' depending on the purpose of the machine. None of this causes much trouble at the windows level because you can always drag and drop any document on the appropriate browser if you are on a machine that has a differnt default. In REBOL the situation, if it is as has been explained to me, is different. REBOL apparently `wires' the `browse' command to your (windows level) default browser. This strikes me as superficially quite obviously wrong, but I am so new to REBOL that I don't want to make any substantive judgements yet. I would have thought that the browse command should probably be something like `browse /via Netscape ...' or `broswe /via Anaya ...' or whatever defaulting to the `windows default' if no /via clause is given. So what I was asking for was not so much some stunt to pull in Windows as it was a work-around for what seems to me to be a deficiency in REBOL. That's all.
[7/17] from: carl:cybercraft at: 26-Jun-2001 18:04
On 26-Jun-01, David Ness wrote:
> [sterling--rebol--com] wrote: >> That's really more of a user preference, not a programmer
<<quoted lines omitted: 27>>> deficiency in REBOL. > That's all.
Ah - I think I get what you're on about. You want the programs you write and run yourself to be able to choose specific browsers, whereas Stirling is imagining others using your programs and being a bit surprised when that browser they'd forgotten they'd installed suddenly fires up. I can see that this could be useful. -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]
[8/17] from: dness:home at: 26-Jun-2001 2:29
Carl Read wrote:
> Ah - I think I get what you're on about. You want the programs you > write and run yourself to be able to choose specific browsers,
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>> Carl Read > [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]
Yes. You get it. Perhaps it's the difference between `users' and `clients'. `Users' may want to be in control, but my clients pay me to make design decisions on their behalf, and are not interested (often) in second guessing me. If you get a lot of experience with browsers, something which I would _not_ reccommend to most, you'll find that there are a lot of subtle and a few not-so-subtle differences in capabilities between them. And being able to `manage' this choice is just as important as it is to not require that it be made. I believe a system is more robust if it does not require a commitment from ground zero to `who's in charge here'. For some tasks it will be the end user, but for others it may well be the designer. Precluding either one doesn't strike me as wise, and languages that can not encompass both are likely to be of only limited value.
[9/17] from: brett:codeconscious at: 26-Jun-2001 21:23
Probably obvious to all (may have even been said), but just thought I'd make it explicit. On occasion (lots of times) I've downloaded a script or a View index.r using the browser to inspect the contents. I cannot do this with IE now that I've installed the plugin with IE, so I use Netscape. Sometimes I do this to get the browser to force a refresh in the ISP proxy by ctrl-shift-reloadings multiple times (don't know how to do the equivalent in Rebol yet). Ok not your normal use, but sometimes highly useful! Brett.
[10/17] from: ptretter:charter at: 26-Jun-2001 7:10
Any chance that the code for the plugin can be posted as open source? Paul Tretter
[11/17] from: sterling:rebol at: 26-Jun-2001 12:06
It should currently be set to text/x-rebol as the full MIME type. If not, then something didn't install right or you have set the MIME type in another way. Sterling
[12/17] from: ptretter:charter at: 26-Jun-2001 15:43
Actually, I was curious why it wasn't set to application/x-rebol instead. I noticed that most plugin's seem to use the application mime type instead like shockwave for example. Also since browsers can view standard text - I think that it may be forcing the browser to return the blank page. Paul Tretter
[13/17] from: sterling:rebol at: 26-Jun-2001 14:24
I now understand what you are asking for but I think it is unrealistic. Let's say we support NS and IE... "what about Opera", what about the Java Browser? (HotJava is it? I don't recall), "what about ...", "what about ..." The endless flow of "support my browser" issues happens. And what if the machine that you run on does not have NS installed and you are doing browse/via http://... "netscape" as you have defined it? What then? Does it fall back to IE? Opera? Java? In what order? REBOL tries to help yo udevelop your applications as quickly and easily as possible but it cannot do your programming for you. What you awnt is ViewPro. With that you can use the shell component and just: call "netscape.exe mypage.html" call "iexplore.exe mypage.html" or anything else you like. IT would be truly magical if browse could do what you ask but, as I said, it is unrealistic give all the permutations of issues. Sterling
[14/17] from: mario:cassani:icl at: 27-Jun-2001 8:47
> -----Original Message----- > From: [sterling--rebol--com] [mailto:[sterling--rebol--com]] > > I now understand what you are asking for but I think it is > unrealistic. Let's say we support NS and IE... "what about Opera", > "what about the Java Browser?" (HotJava is it? I don't recall), "what
> you awnt is ViewPro. With that you can use the shell component and > just: > > call "netscape.exe mypage.html" > call "iexplore.exe mypage.html" >
Talking about the plugin: i tried to install it twice with IE but, what I get is the requester to "Open this file from its current location" or "Save this file to disk". Choosing the first one View opens but does not run the script. What's wrong? I have a PIII 500 with NT 4 sp6 and IE 5.00.2919.6307 I have also made a test with Opera (I know, you don't support it but recent news are telling that Netscape is closing and its plugins are usually compatible with Opera) but without success... What do you plan to do with the NS plugin if it really closes, support Opera or not? Is there an updated beta of the plugin? Is there a page about the plugin and its progress on the site? Thank you for the REBOLution Mario
[15/17] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 27-Jun-2001 15:12
Hi, there is and probably will be some user base of NS 4.x installed, untill Mozilla gets optimized or pll will throw away their old hw and buy faster one :-) But - Mozilla turns to be usable even on my P300 Celeron, 64 MB RAM (except Mozilla mailer). Maybe it would be better to concenrate on Opera and even better on Mozilla, as it is only one true open, multiplatform Browser. It even is not browser, - it is browser platform. It's Gecko kernel will be used here and there, for free. As of Mozilla 1.0, it will grow. Even current 0.9.1 version is stable enough to be used on faster machines ... btw: does Mozilla use NS compatible plug-in interface? -pekr-
[16/17] from: chris:starforge:demon at: 27-Jun-2001 14:31
Petr Krenzelok wrote:
> btw: does Mozilla use NS compatible plug-in interface?
I have Sun's Java1.3 plugin for Netscape6 installed here, and I'm using Mozilla0.9 Looks like they're compatible, Chris -- New sig in the works Explorer2260 Designer and Coder http://www.starforge.co.uk
[17/17] from: sterling:rebol at: 27-Jun-2001 9:35
I don't know if the file is linked on the site yet but you can get the plugin library directly from: http://www.reboltech.com/plugins/nprplug.dll Other users have been able to put that directly into the Opera plugin dir, reload plugins within Opera without restartin the browser, and had it work just fine. We have had a few reports of the plugin and/or the install not working under NT but so far have been unable to reproduce the problem. Sterling
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