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REBOL programming idea...

 [1/10] from: carl::cybercraft::co::nz at: 22-Oct-2001 12:28


I've just been looking at RARS - see... http://rars.sourceforge.net/ For those who don't know, RARS stands for "Robot Auto Racing Simulator". With it you write programs to control virtual cars on virtual race-tracks. Which is a great idea, let down by the fact you have to program them in C++. Which is okay for C++ programmers, but not for others. So, can anyone think of a similar idea to be implimented in REBOL? But unlike RARS, the robot programs shouldn't be written in REBOL but in a REBOL dialect created specifically for the simulation. Then anyone who wanted to write robot programs would only have to learn the dialect and wouldn't be at a disadvantage compared to those who've been writing REBOL code for years. -- Carl Read

 [2/10] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Oct-2001 22:53


Hey Carl, << For those who don't know, RARS stands for "Robot Auto Racing Simulator". With it you write programs to control virtual cars on virtual race-tracks. <snip> ...So, can anyone think of a similar idea to be implimented in REBOL? But unlike RARS, the robot programs shouldn't be written in REBOL but in a REBOL dialect created specifically for the simulation. Then anyone who wanted to write robot programs would only have to learn the dialect and wouldn't be at a disadvantage compared to those who've been writing REBOL code for years. >> I've always liked the build-a-better-bot genre, though it's pretty small. I hadn't seen RARS, and just the other day downloaded something called AIWars. I've only watched some sample bots run around in it so far. I'm playing with my first dialect (Logo) and I have to say that REBOL makes it pretty darn fun. I haven't tackled procedures with parameters yet, but you can define parameterless procedures and make the turtle run around. Without making a commitment...what should the game be? RARS looks like it has a fairly high bar on entry, which I'm not keen on. For real people or programmers? GUI or text? (Had to ask. :) Thought about Hunt the Wumpus recently...Wumpus Hunter Bots. =:O) Top down, side view, or 3D? Destroy opponent(s) or some other goal? --Gregg

 [3/10] from: carl:cybercraft at: 22-Oct-2001 19:46


On 22-Oct-01, Gregg Irwin wrote:
> Hey Carl, > << For those who don't know, RARS stands for "Robot Auto Racing
<<quoted lines omitted: 17>>
> like it has a fairly high bar on entry, which I'm not keen on. > For real people or programmers?
Both? (: I would think a simple language with not too many words to it would be the way to go. Some to sense the surroundings, some to tell the robot what to do and a few others to make the decisions.
> GUI or text? (Had to ask. :)
Text for writing the programs, (they'd be just scripts, afterall), but a GUI for showing the simulation.
> Thought about Hunt the Wumpus recently...Wumpus Hunter Bots. =:O)
The name rings a bell, but I've forgotten what it is. Enlighten me. (:
> Top down, side view, or 3D?
The beauty of a simulation is that they can be viewed in different ways. RARS has simple top-down views as well as 3D. If the viewer's kept totally seperate, different types could be available at once.
> Destroy opponent(s) or some other goal?
Well, competitive, obviously. Perhaps another individual sport like motor-racing? Yachting perhaps? Or if a teamsport (like soccer) then perhaps you would provide a program for each individual in your team. Or a game could be invented that's not played in the real world. Then the robots could look like robots. (: A multiple competitor game would be more interesting than just one on one. -- Carl Read

 [4/10] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 22-Oct-2001 2:06


Hi Carl, << > Thought about Hunt the Wumpus recently...Wumpus Hunter Bots. =:O) The name rings a bell, but I've forgotten what it is. Enlighten me. >> The Wumpus lives in a cave, 3 tunnels connect every room, and you have to hunt him down shooting crooked arrows. He could eat you, or you could fall in a pit and die, and bats could carry you to a random room. The first "text adventure" game I ever played I think. :) << > Top down, side view, or 3D? The beauty of a simulation is that they can be viewed in different ways. RARS has simple top-down views as well as 3D. If the viewer's kept totally seperate, different types could be available at once. >> Well, there may be differences that limit your views. For example, how many degrees of freedom the bots have and if/how gravity is applied. I guess we need to figure out what we're simulating first. << > Destroy opponent(s) or some other goal? Well, competitive, obviously. Perhaps another individual sport like motor-racing? Yachting perhaps? Or if a teamsport (like soccer) then perhaps you would provide a program for each individual in your team. >> If mere mortals are going to program these things, I don't know if we should push for navigating maps (e.g. race courses). That would probably be too much. They need to be able to move around and perform actions *very* easily and feel proficient in very short order or they'll walk. People these days have very short att... << Or a game could be invented that's not played in the real world. Then the robots could look like robots. (: A multiple competitor game would be more interesting than just one on one. >> Any kind of goal scoring game could be done. You could do it with 1, 2, or more bots per side, or more than 2 teams. Rollerball might be a bit of work. :) For battling bots, you could have them work in groups, one or more attackers plus one or more defenders. You could also do maze-runner/puzzle-solver bots. Have square pegs and round holes scattered about for them to match up. Coordinating bots intentionally will be way too much for non-programmers. If you did something like cats chasing a mouse, each is just acting on his own and adding more doesn't require coordination. I guess the same is true for most things actually. You don't *have* to coordinate them and they may do it naturally to some extent, as a self-organizing system (e.g. StarLogo). Maybe a "team" consists of two types of bots: Hunter and Prey. Did you ever play RoboSport from Maxis? It's a turn-based game and you could program your team of robots to perform very simple actions (all GUI, manual programming done for each turn): change-posture, move, scan(area), fire(target), scan-and-fire(area range-limit), throw-grenade(target), zap. You could play a few different games (destroy, rescue, CTF) on a couple different maps. I'd like to start off simple. I have about a zillion things going on and, if we start small but come up with a good engine to drive it, we can always do more advanced stuff later. The simpler it is, the more accessible it will be to a wider audience (which will still be pretty narrow) and the sooner we can play it. :) Which would you vote for? Soccer/Goal-Game Shooters/Fighters Hunter+Prey Other --Gregg

 [5/10] from: carl:cybercraft at: 23-Oct-2001 0:08


On 22-Oct-01, Gregg Irwin wrote:
> << > Destroy opponent(s) or some other goal? Well, competitive, > obviously. Perhaps another individual sport like motor-racing?
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> perform actions *very* easily and feel proficient in very short > order or they'll walk. People these days have very short att...
Well, there's bound to be borders in any game, so they'll need to be able to "see" them.
> Coordinating bots intentionally will be way too much for > non-programmers. If you did something like cats chasing a mouse,
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> extent, as a self-organizing system (e.g. StarLogo). Maybe a "team" > consists of two types of bots: Hunter and Prey.
Or hunters and prey? I like the idea of cats and mice. How about an equal number of cats and mice, with the winning cat being the cat who caught the most mice and the winning mouse being the one that lived the longest?
> Did you ever play RoboSport from Maxis? It's a turn-based game and > you could program your team of robots to perform very simple actions > (all GUI, manual programming done for each turn): change-posture, > move, scan(area), fire(target), scan-and-fire(area range-limit), > throw-grenade(target), zap. You could play a few different games > (destroy, rescue, CTF) on a couple different maps.
No, but it does sound pretty simple.
> I'd like to start off simple. I have about a zillion things going on > and, if we start small but come up with a good engine to drive it,
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> Hunter+Prey > Other
Hunters + prey - ie, cats and mice. (: And in a maze, perhaps? Mice could move, turn, look and sniff the ground. Cats could move, turn, look, sniff the ground and pounce. And both would leave a distinct scent. -- Carl Read

 [6/10] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 22-Oct-2001 10:21


Hi Carl, << Hunters + prey - ie, cats and mice. (: And in a maze, perhaps? >> Hunters and prey it is. I'm not sure about the maze aspect though (navigation again). I would vote for an open map with obstacles. I'll mail you so we don't eat up everybody's ML time. --Gregg

 [7/10] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 22-Oct-2001 18:23


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> the dialect and wouldn't be at a disadvantage compared to those > who've been writing REBOL code for years.
Hi, well remembers me of the old "Core Wars", where you had two programs fighting against each other. Would be a nice demo, especially with a good visualization. Robert

 [8/10] from: chrismorency:videotron:ca at: 22-Oct-2001 19:17


Hi Does anybody remember Omega from Origin, where you would write the AI of a tank in a Basic dialect, each command (physical/logical) would use a certain amount of cpu time and you had to make your tank fight one another in a big arena ? ie Houston, Texas ;) ! That was so fun to play... I still have an original copy at my parent's home. I would be interested in working on such a thing, amongs my other projects... Best, Chris

 [9/10] from: matt:fitzgerald:bigpond at: 23-Oct-2001 9:53


What about Colobot? (http://www.colobot.com) A game which is supposed to teach you C++ (maybe it's just plain C) - perhaps a REBOL version like that? REBOT? :-) -Matt

 [10/10] from: carl:cybercraft at: 23-Oct-2001 13:47


On 23-Oct-01, Gregg Irwin wrote:
> Hi Carl, > << Hunters + prey - ie, cats and mice. (: And in a maze, perhaps? >> > Hunters and prey it is. I'm not sure about the maze aspect though > (navigation again). I would vote for an open map with obstacles.
Walls here and there, then. (:
> I'll mail you so we don't eat up everybody's ML time.
Okay. Seems like a few others are interested too, so setting up a specific mailing list for it seems the best idea. If/when that's done, we'll mention it on this list so those interested can join. -- Carl Read

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