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AltME: Something new from our team.

 [1/30] from: reichart::prolific::com at: 21-Nov-2002 3:06


Hello All, Been a while since I have written. This is because we have been working very hard on a lot of different products. FTPGadget is coming along wonderfully. About 10 Rebols here are now using the product, and have dropped whatever they were using (WS_FTP, Cute, Leech). You can grab a copy for yourself from www.ProGadget.com. We will be doing another update in about 10 days. We are also working on something new, which will probably be of great interest to everyone here, because it is another product built 100% on Rebol. The product is called AltME (Alternative Messaging Environment). It may look familiar to those of you using IOS. But we are building this backwards from IOS. Starting with just a very simple and clean messaging system, sort of like IRC. This is intended for the mass market. It has to be 1. Download, 2. Enter password, 3. Start using. Almost no learning curve. Over time, we will add more features. In a nut shell, this product does a bunch of things ICQ does not, such as: You can create your own world and invite only the people that you want into it. Talk "privately" and "securely" to one person, or create a group and talk together privately and securely. Share checklists for work groups, or just reminders. And two more great things...it is FREE. Yes, free. You can learn how and why on the site. And it runs on Linux. You can download your own version to play with from our new site www.SafeWorlds.com. Have fun. Be useful. Reichart... [Reichart--Prolific--com] www.Prolific.com "The crazy place I work." www.SereneScreen.com "A cool thing we make." www.ProGadget.com "Something brewing in the kitchen." www.SafeWorlds.com "The Alternative Messaging Environment"

 [2/30] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 21-Nov-2002 15:21


Reichart wrote:
>Hello All, >
Hello Reichart! I know about the product for few days :-) I even sent some feedback already. Please - be sure to fix some UI issues before you go for the release. As the info is public now, I hope we can submit bug reports, etc.
>We are also working on something new, which will probably be of great >interest to everyone here, because it is another product built 100% on
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>market. It has to be 1. Download, 2. Enter password, 3. Start using. >Almost no learning curve. Over time, we will add more features.
now it sounds itneresting. What kind of protocol does AltME use internally? Is it IOS RMP protocol? How does it sync? How will it scale? As e.g. IOS is IMO suitable for smaller groups - let's say 10 - 30 active ppl is still comfort, but above 100, I am not sure ...
>In a nut shell, this product does a bunch of things ICQ does not, such as: >You can create your own world and invite only the people that you want into >it. >
So you use central look-up server, right? So once you add file-sharing, it is rather easy for music industry to turn whole AltME ned off? :-) Just kidding ... but as I said - I am interested in underlying messaging technology, if not secret of course ...
>Talk "privately" and "securely" to one person, or create a group and talk >together privately and securely. > >Share checklists for work groups, or just reminders. >
Will it be possible to "install" new apps/reblets into owned World? That way it could grow into something really cool ...
>And two more great things...it is FREE. Yes, free. You can learn how >and why on the site. And it runs on Linux. You can download your own >version to play with from our new site www.SafeWorlds.com. Have fun. >
I would be having fun, if I would know how to get it working from behind the firewall. Why don't you allow proxy settings or why don't you use http tunneling like IOS does, please? Anyway - good work, nice docs! -pekr-

 [3/30] from: amicom:sonic at: 21-Nov-2002 8:13


At 03:21 PM 11/21/02 +0100, you wrote:
>I would be having fun, if I would know how to get it working from behind >the firewall. Why don't you allow proxy settings or why don't you use http >tunneling like IOS does, please?
I don't agree with the HTTP tunneling idea. That would require running a webserver and most people aren't interested in running a webserver. Just give me the port# so I know which port to allow through my firewall.
>Anyway - good work, nice docs!
Agreed! Bohdan "Bo" Lechnowsky Lechnowsky Technical Consulting

 [4/30] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 21-Nov-2002 16:17


Hi Petr, On Thursday, November 21, 2002, 3:21:56 PM, you wrote: PK> I would be having fun, if I would know how to get it working from behind PK> the firewall. Why don't you allow proxy settings or why don't you use PK> http tunneling like IOS does, please? I think that HTTP is too limited to allow IM in a smooth way. I think that this is the reason for the limited scalability of IOS. (I.e. /Link has to poll; this means that if you have 10 users active, you have 10 users polling your HTTP server; you have to do polling very often, if you want it to look like instant messaging; so, as the number of users grow, the amount of work in for the HTTP server grows, and servers like Apache have to spawn a new process for each new connection. This can take a small server down quite quickly. Unless you can afford a server cluster...) I think that a solution to the problem is to try to be smart and use both HTTP and a custom protocol. So, you have three class of users: 1. Users that can receive and do connections on any port. 2. Users that can connect to any port but cannot receive connections. 3. Users that can only do HTTP requests. Now, we can provide a good performance to users in class 3 by using the resources of users from class 1. Once the client knows in which class it is (either by doing tests or by asking the user), it can decide how to communicate. If it is in class 1, it does a connection with the server using the custom protocol. (One could even try to take advantage of multicasting if it works for some users...) Also, it asks to the user if it is ok to open an HTTP port to "help" other users behind a firewall. If it is in class 3, it does an HTTP request to the server to know the list of users that offer the HTTP service. (Or, one could use HTTP push if it works with the proxy the user is forced to use.) Then the client can do polling by selecting randomly one of the users with the HTTP service. What do you think? Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

 [5/30] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 21-Nov-2002 18:13


Hello Reichart and all, AltME looks cool! I have tried it just on my localhost because I haven't find any active(running) world :-( Keep up the cool work! Cyphre P.S. I've created and currently running my own world so if anyone want to try it (provided there aren't firewalls between us ;-) ) you can log-in using following info: world name: "Rebolheaven" user: "guest" password: "guest"

 [6/30] from: amicom:sonic at: 21-Nov-2002 9:50


Gabriele, I think it should simply use ports to start out with. The server only needs to open one port for incoming connections. Yes, if you are using it on a corporate LAN, you will probably be out of luck unless the port# is selectable on the server end. If the port were selectable, the world Master could put it on port 80, port 23 or some other "standard" port if the respective daemon isn't running on that machine. This would still rule out running a server on a corporate LAN, but there aren't a whole lot of viable solutions to do that in any case. Maybe I'm missing something in my quick appraisal of the situation, but that's the way I'd like to see it. Bohdan "Bo" Lechnowsky Lechnowsky Technical Consulting At 04:17 PM 11/21/02 +0100, you wrote:

 [7/30] from: lennart:nylen:biz at: 21-Nov-2002 18:24


2002-11-21 16:17:59, Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> wrote:
>If it is in class 1, it does a connection with the server using >the custom protocol. (One could even try to take advantage of >multicasting if it works for some users...) Also, it asks to the >user if it is ok to open an HTTP port to "help" other users behind >a firewall.
The idea is surely intriguing. Having a setting (inactive by default) for acting as a "relay" should ensure people won't get upset over your app taking over my computer . The idea would be even nicer if one developed a framework for it. :-) /Lennart Fridén ([lennart--nylen--biz]) The World is not sane so why should I be?

 [8/30] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Nov-2002 11:40


Hi Reichart, R> The product is called AltME (Alternative Messaging Environment). Nice work (again) Reichart! Congratulations to you and the team on another nice looking product! -- Gregg

 [9/30] from: gordon:raboud:ca at: 21-Nov-2002 18:57


Hi; This is very cool. I could find it quite useful. Is there a SafeWorlds =96 World that I/We could join to get our questions answered? If not I could set one up but that would mean that I would have to already have the answers to the questions I have. Chicken or egg syndrome. I've set up my LinkSys router to forward the ports 5400-5409 to my local computer address. Is this what I need to do to allow others to join Worlds that I set up? Gord

 [10/30] from: rishi:adelphia at: 21-Nov-2002 11:38


Hi. Couldn't log onto anyone's world. Mine is: World: superglue I created 8 user names and passwords incase anyone would like to try... User1: guest1 Pass: guest1 User2: guest2 Pass: guest2 . . . user8: guest8 pass: guest8 rishi

 [11/30] from: carl:s:rebol at: 21-Nov-2002 13:20


Reichart, Thanks for the update. It's good to see another application written in REBOL... I've just created a test world called "REBOL"... with groups for Command, Encap, SDK, Core, View, and more. If you want to try it, download www.safeworlds.com/download.html Then logon as guest with password guest ... then click on Carl and tell me who you are, and I'll create you an account. We'll see how it works out. I'll keep it running for a few days. -Carl At 03:06 AM 11/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>interest to everyone here, because it is another product built 100% on >Rebol. > >The product is called AltME (Alternative Messaging Environment). It
-Carl Carl Sassenrath

 [12/30] from: gordon:raboud:ca at: 21-Nov-2002 20:48


Hi Rishi; I tried to log into your World using guest7/guest7. AltME found the World and tried to connect to the World but came up with the following error box: "Not able to connect at this time." I set up the following world to test: World: Alt Messaging Environment User1: guest1 Pass: pass1 ... User8: guest8 Pass: pass8 Please give it a try. Thanks. [Gordon--raboud--ca]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
On 21/11/2002, 12:38:09 PM, "rishi" <[rishi--adelphia--net]> wrote regarding [REBOL] Re: AltME: Something new from our team.:

 [13/30] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 22-Nov-2002 11:01


On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 11:38:09 -0800 "rishi" <[rishi--adelphia--net]> wrote:
>Hi. Couldn't log onto anyone's world. Mine is: > >World: superglue >
Can't get on. Are u behind a firewall? Is your world open? The server window should be open at the bottom left of your screen. -- Graham Chiu

 [14/30] from: rishi:adelphia at: 21-Nov-2002 13:51


I got the same error when I tried to log onto your world.. I used guest1/pass1 Strange... rishi

 [15/30] from: rishi:adelphia at: 21-Nov-2002 13:46


Hi Gordan.. Hmm.. strange.. it should have worked.. I tested it with another computer.. Can you try User: guest1 Pass: guest1 I also tried to connect to someone else's world with no luck... rishi

 [16/30] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 22-Nov-2002 10:54


On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:57:17 +0000 (GMT) Gordon Raboud <[gordon--raboud--ca]> wrote:
> I've set up my LinkSys router to forward the ports >5400-5409 to my >local computer address. Is this what I need to do to >allow others to >join Worlds that I set up?
I tried this the other day, but my user could not get thru to my worlds. OTOH, although Petr could not access his own world, I was able to log on to his :) -- Graham Chiu

 [17/30] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 22-Nov-2002 11:03


On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:13:24 +0100 "Cyphre" <[cyphre--seznam--cz]> wrote: ,
>AltME looks cool! I have tried it just on my localhost >because I haven't >find any active(running) world :-(
Richard, use the test world: Genesis, userid: guest, password: hello Goodluck! -- Graham Chiu

 [18/30] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 22-Nov-2002 11:51


On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:20:53 -0800 Carl at REBOL <[carl--s--rebol--com]> wrote:
>Thanks for the update. It's good to see another >application written in REBOL...
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>Carl and tell me who you are, and I'll create you an >account.
I get invalid username/password. Perhaps someone has logged on already as guest and changed the password?? -- Graham Chiu

 [19/30] from: alanwall:sonic at: 21-Nov-2002 14:04


At 11:38 AM 11/21/02 -0800, you wrote:

 [20/30] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Nov-2002 15:57


Hi Carl, I can't connect to superglue. It tells me "Alt Messaging Environment" does not exist as a world. I got "invalid name or password" as guest/guest on REBOL. -- Gregg

 [21/30] from: jan:skibinski:sympatico:ca at: 21-Nov-2002 18:46


> I get invalid username/password. Perhaps someone has > logged on already as guest and changed the password??
I was there, clashed with another 'guest, left a message and exited. Later on tried login again as guest with no success. No, I did not change the guest password. jan

 [22/30] from: rishi:adelphia at: 21-Nov-2002 16:19


Woops!! I didn't know that I could do that. I was playing around and thought I changed my specific guest password! My apologies If I screwed up the password.. I changed it back to "guest" so please try again.. rishi

 [23/30] from: gordon:raboud:ca at: 22-Nov-2002 0:40


Hi Gregg;
> It tells me "Alt Messaging Environment" does not exist as a world.
That's because I can't spell! Try: World: AME user: guest0 pass: guest0 or user: guest1 pass: guest1
> I got "invalid name or password" as guest/guest on REBOL.
Same here

 [24/30] from: al:bri:xtra at: 22-Nov-2002 16:58


It's very nice! Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/

 [25/30] from: louisaturk:coxinet at: 21-Nov-2002 22:49


Bo, Try this link, bottom of page, for port to use. http://www.safeworlds.com/guide/advanced.html Louis At 09:50 AM 11/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:

 [26/30] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 22-Nov-2002 10:44


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> ... > What do you think?
Hi, I like the idea! IMO this would speed up IOS a lot. And having a fallback strategy from 1 to 3 we have a guarantee that it will work in any case. Did you send it to feedback? Robert

 [27/30] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 22-Nov-2002 15:34


Hi Robert, On Friday, November 22, 2002, 10:44:49 AM, you wrote: RMM> Hi, I like the idea! IMO this would speed up IOS a lot. And having a RMM> fallback strategy from 1 to 3 we have a guarantee that it will work in RMM> any case. Did you send it to feedback? Robert I didn't. I don't seem to be able to contact RT via email lately (either my mails don't get to them, or their answers don't get to me, or they are submerged by mails and don't notice; last time I had the chance to talk to Cindy she said that my messages to [feedback--rebol--com] didn't arrive). I hope the new feedback system Carl announced will work better. Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

 [28/30] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 22-Nov-2002 18:29


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> Subject: [REBOL] Re: AltME: Something new from our team. > I didn't.
Hi, ok. Do you submit it to feedback or should I do it? Robert

 [29/30] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 22-Nov-2002 20:16


Hi Robert, On Friday, November 22, 2002, 6:29:01 PM, you wrote: RMM> Hi, ok. Do you submit it to feedback or should I do it? Robert I'll try asking on AltME. If you want you can try sending to feedback, please. Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

 [30/30] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 23-Nov-2002 10:46


On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:34:35 +0100 Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> wrote:
>[feedback--rebol--com] didn't arrive). I hope the new >feedback system >Carl announced will work better.
Gabriele, I had all 5 of my feedbacks answered within 24 hours. -- Graham Chiu

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