One-Liners back in town!

Hello All, Some time ago I saw Ca(R)l writing about someone that could maintain the reboltech/library files? Well if that someone is reading this :-) Howabout the following: New Folder called "One-liners" Im currious how creative rebol programmers are, from the one-liners you also can tell how powerfull a language is (not to speak about the programmer ;-) Small code with impact! I remeber days from the early '90 where it was a hit to score with onliner... lets bring those back, or should i keep that dream to myself :-) Well? (R)egards, Norman. -- Conversation/lunch: "How do you Eat your Rebol in the Morning?"

Hi Norman, R> Some time ago I saw Ca(R)l writing about someone that could maintain R> the reboltech/library files? Well if that someone is reading this :-) R> Howabout the following: R> New Folder called "One-liners" I'll pass it along to the library team. If anyone else thinks this is a good idea, let me know. -- Gregg

On 20-Nov-02, Gregg Irwin wrote:

> Hi Norman, >> Some time ago I saw Ca(R)l writing about someone that could > I'll pass it along to the library team. If anyone else thinks this > is a good idea, let me know.

> If anyone else thinks this is a good idea, let me know.

I just hope it doesn't encourage people to write unreadable, obfuscated code in place of clean, readable code. You shouldn't have to sacrifice readability and ease-of-use for tight code.

We should have a one-liner of the week... or contest for best one-liner. I know I've got some fun ones. Then, post the results on the web site... -Carl PS: Yes, the Library project is happening... thanks to some dedicated volunteers. At 10:01 PM 11/19/02 +0100, you wrote:

>Hello All, >Some time ago I saw Ca(R)l writing about someone that could maintain >[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the >subject, without the quotes.

>I do, as it's fun, encourages competition, (in that >others will try to >better eachother's one-liners), and makes you re-think >the >programming habits you've got into.

Norman wrote:

> Im currious how creative rebol programmers are, from the one-liners you

Hi Ashley, At 10:42 AM 11/20/2002 +1100, you wrote:

>>If anyone else thinks this is a good idea, let me know. > >Got my vote, and here is my favourite one liner to start the ball rolling: > > save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]

On 20-Nov-02, Graham Chiu wrote:

>> >> I do, as it's fun, encourages competition, (in that > Hi Carl, > how about a cap on the number of chars ... say 4096 :)

On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 07:03:01PM +1200, Carl Read wrote:

> On 20-Nov-02, Graham Chiu wrote: > >> > style-guide suggests we should keep our line-lengths within, so > that's what the one-liners should be restricted to.

> -- > Carl Read >

Hi Ashley and Louis, since I am realy a REBOL newbie, I tried to adapt your submission to use only REBOL for display too. And this worked as the following : save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"] view layout [image %hello.png] It is a lot more quicker than with the default Web browser !!! I also tried the following and this doesn't work similarly in the sense that I can't store the resulting .png file in addition to displaying it. view layout [image to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] Can someone optimize (correct it) any more ? Finally I tried to go with : view layout [image img: to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] but the result displayed is an empty image ... I don't understand why yet but I am looking further for an answer These other tries don't work either and I am always questioning myself about them ... I really miss something about the way VID and REBOL works in the basics, I think! view layout [img: save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] or view layout [to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] or view layout [image img: save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] Regards, Gerard

Hi Gerard, On 23-Nov-02, Gerard Cote wrote:

> Hi Ashley and Louis, > since I am realy a REBOL newbie, I tried to adapt your submission to > view layout [image to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] > Can someone optimize (correct it) any more ?

> Finally I tried to go with : view layout [image img: to-image layout > [banner "Hello World!"]] but the result displayed is an empty image > ... I don't understand why yet but I am looking further for an > answer

> These other tries don't work either and I am always questioning > myself about them ... I really miss something about the way VID and > REBOL works in the basics, I think! > view layout [img: save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello > World!"]]

>> to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]

>> save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]

> or view layout [to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]]

> or view layout [image img: save/png %hello.png to-image layout > [banner "Hello World!"]]

Hello Carl, Saturday, November 23, 2002, 12:48:34 AM, you wrote: CR> Hi Gerard, CR> On 23-Nov-02, Gerard Cote wrote:

>> Hi Ashley and Louis, >> since I am realy a REBOL newbie, I tried to adapt your submission to >> view layout [image to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]] >> Can someone optimize (correct it) any more ?

>> Finally I tried to go with : view layout [image img: to-image layout >> [banner "Hello World!"]] but the result displayed is an empty image >> ... I don't understand why yet but I am looking further for an >> answer

>> These other tries don't work either and I am always questioning >> myself about them ... I really miss something about the way VID and >> REBOL works in the basics, I think! >> view layout [img: save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello >> World!"]]

>>> to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]

>>> save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]

>> or view layout [to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"]]

>> or view layout [image img: save/png %hello.png to-image layout >> [banner "Hello World!"]]

Thanks a lot Carl for this refreshing view of the paren ( ) use inside VID and of the way you dissect your code and test it directly from the CONSOLE with finer granularity than I was sometimes ... until now - be assured of it. That remembers me the old days when I learned to code in my first COMMODORE'S PET BASIC programs. Later I new that this kind of doing was named bottom-up coding vs the top down approach. Even if I regularly do it, this had to be remembered to me here and thanks again for this help - even if it is on such a basic theme. This was something I missed completely in the context of VID and for sure it really helps me to better understand how VID is working in this case and how to use the console for testing in this way. To get our collective one-liner under the 80 chars limit, what do you think of the following refinements suggestions : 1- Use another slightly shorter message to display like "HELLO ALL" or "HI WORLD!" and everything is fitting without losing any readability. 2- To respect the original msg to be displayed, use another shorter word name than "img" to store the image. for example, use "im" or "ph" (for Photo) and you also get 2 characters, so the result is now 79 chars. 3- But personally, I would prefer to keep it at 81 chars since this suggests a better reading and so understanding. In fact I would like the judges accept such "not so formal" submissions as true one-liners - and relax somehow their first constraints, if this seems not too tricky for any NEW reader to understand, use and modify. These would be my own criteria but I am not the boss here. I'm only transmitting my "heart feeling" for the newcomers. Nevertheless keep up the good work everybody. Sincerely, Gerard P.S. May be this could be useful for such OFFICIAL rejected submissions (over 80 chars), to keep them under another general category called something like the "EASILY READ but SLIGHTY OVER SIZED one-liners" or else specify some SIZE RELATED categories like <80, 80-100, 100-1k, > 1k. But is it really necessary - we don't have to be purists like this I think. Just be kind enough and fair for everybody's else submission. It's not a DEAD or LIFE combat, in my view it must simply be entertaining and useful to learn and show others what can be done with REBOL in one EASY READ line of code. (That's my pov)

Hi to everyone on this thread. Great to see the discussion it is generating. A couple of thoughts (just opinion, so feel free to disagree ;) )

>> save/png %hello.png to-image layout [banner "Hello World!"] view layout >> [image %hello.png]

Hi, You do have a point there although I would beg to differ that One-Liners aren't exactly aimed at readability, When I want readability I insert comments and place extra spaces and lines so that my eye can easily see what is going on. One-Liners were never designed to be readable therefore pack as much punch is as little room as possible. ;-) Just my two little pennies. Ammon Johnson --- CIO Addept ------------------ (www.addept.ws) 435-616-2322 -------- ([ammon--addept--ws])

Hi Ashley, I'm glad you're completely ON TRACK with this most pertinent remark since it goes hand in hand with my pov. this is why I recommend to well document every one-liner (even shortly if no time avail or if don't see the necessity to do it thoroughly) as to what it does first and if it must be splitted further in simpler things, THIS MUST ABSOLUTELY be done according to me - for newcomers and as we commonly say here "for posterity", and that comes with some clear idea to me about the why and how of all that : teaching REBOL to youngsters and other learners too. But since I know that every spirit must also be free to think to his dreams, we can't stop everyone to dream about what can be done in a one-liner, even if this counts as many small "disjoint but cumulative effect" steps. We should however help others to better understand REBOL by shedding some light to every fine details that can be a REAL WALL when you come to REBOL for the many first times. So here is my real idea about all those one-liners, relative to every one-liner created in some way : 1) For every submit - to keep FUN and SURPRISE for everyone that listens, the author should do its best to seperately submit (later if he doesn't want to kill the ORIGINAL spirit of such an informal contest and the flame that goes with it as I really feel it in this ML now!!! and I share this with everybody else very much you can believe me ... since it is an attractive, distractive and informal way to learn some new material - As a teacher I suggest that more if not most courses and classes should follow and include this pattern for many parts of every syllabi or even entire curricula as pragmatic ways to help motivate learners, create a better learning efficiency and help keeping retention for so many details - Oups! SORRY for this long paren but I like to think in REBOL myself with the add-on of any new concept I recently learned and since Carl READ remindde me of the usefulness of Paren when we are using some DIALECTS I have catched it now but ... For a sysnthesis, every submit should be accompanied - but separately delivered and later if the creator chooses to do it so - by doc that should clearly present all the global goal, and the small steps that had to be put together to get the work done, and in some cases slightly explain in global terms the real difficulties that had to be overcome - that is the many improvement or modifs that gave way to the final submit and that without it could be very difficult to figure out the HOW and WHY of every word or combination of it - don't neglect too that in some cases, you can refer to some OFFICIAL doc or discovery explaining where you found your own doc. It could help others to go further too. In fact keep it in the 2 complementary spirits that shloud be everywhere - when time and pleasure comes along for sure but it doesn't need to be in the same moment : keep it fun for yourself and others to read and as simple as possible even if this part needs some explanations of the way you finally got it + the steps when needed. This alone will warrant the survival of REBOL and its friendliness as a real tool in the life of the many others that otherwise will leave it - you can't consider it as a big part of the NATURE truth - but I am not a prophet, I simply analysed for more than 20 years now how ppl learn : if it is fun and understandable - to some extent this can't go over some limit however and I agree for this too. Sorry for this lengthy discussion but I really thinks that some foundation of the current spirit the programming comes from this kind of feeling and I would like REBOL to CONTINUE to be a TRUE part of it for many more ppl that comes and currently say : Wow it seems fun but I can't take too much time to learn it - since it seems so different and so powerful, the learbning curve must be so high - and really it is in some regards but keeping it fun and entertaining is the way to go without regrets, except for the authors that didn't know that they were teaching others that are listening them. After all we all teach others something in the life ... and those that bettr stand the road of success in this way are those that keep HIGH the motivation and fill in good part most of the interests of their listeners - simply think about humorists and good teachers you got in school and those about whom you are remembering of ... Thanks for listening, and keep submitting new DISCOVERY One-liner (or many more lines if you prefer) stuff Gerard P.S. Ashely you got it the first time and I simply waited until someone would digress about the way I did it when adding the DISPLAY part in addition to the CREATE part of the original submit. the idea was submitted by someone else but I retained the idea because sometimes someone dreams of something to do and this idea is grouping in fact many small steps ... but you already know all this - I simply wanted to shed some light to it in FAVOR of keep it simple for others even if this must be in a mix and match way !!! Furthermore your explanation of the 2 following submits are a really nice discussion of the kind of doc or discussion I think should accompany (or follow) any REBOL script, and many of the finer points you raised are worth their weight in gold for every newcomer to REBOL (Thanks to my dictionary for this expression- Copyright © 2000, Harrap's Multimedia, © 2000, Havas Interactive) in the way someone thinks to resolve the difficulties added (surely not put there on a voluntary basis) by the creator, that is not prone to by going from a general solution to a specialized (or refined) one. For example you clearly solved for me many of the questions I had about to figure out how was the clock script using all these messy details (parameters). I didn't find the time nor the docs right at hand on my first reading and I simply put it aside for future study - but I don't know when I would have done it - until I really would have needed it I think ... Keep it clear in the intentions without adding some details in the first run - just to keep it under the 80 chars limit. I am sure this spirit alone can ATTRACT and RETAIN many more ppl to the REBOL community and keep them sticked to the language itself better than any other advertizing ... even if it is necessary to spread the word about. The logic here is when they will come our troups must be ready to support them without too much overhead for us too. As a newcomer I think I should get so much self-study material (going the described way) as I am further able to take myself in charge of my own success story when it comes to learn and use REBOL on a first basis. But I nevertheless love this ML ... and you all for your inestimable support and to be so attentive to our needs as newcomers. Thanks again!

Hi Ammon, From: "Ammon Johnson" :

> Hi, > > You do have a point there although I would beg to differ that One-Liners > aren't exactly aimed at readability, When I want readability I insert > comments and place extra spaces and lines so that my eye can easily see what > is going on. One-Liners were never designed to be readable therefore pack > as much punch is as little room as possible. ;-) >

Gerard et al, I love all the clever things people are coming up with but I can also see where some kind of line will have to be drawn. With REBOL, you could probably do almost anything on one line, and we could write a script that turns things into one liners automatically if we were so inclined. If we do end up with a special library category for this kind of thing, maybe there is more than one way to look at it. There is great value in one-liners that show how to upload a file via FTP for example. Very handy that. The more we cram in, though, the more we get into the "obfuscated REBOL" world where fun is more important than utility. For me, I'd rather nto eliminate all unneccessary whitespace just to try and fit things in 80 characters, but if there's an obfuscated REBOL category, then that's the place to do it. :) -- Gregg

Hi, First off we have to consider that none of the submitions (so far) are TRUE One-Liners, everyone of them are missing the required REBOL header so therefore they are only One-Liners if used in the console, so how about the following rules for One-Liners: First, every One-Liner uses the standard header, including Title, Author, Email, Version, and Purpose. Or whatever you would normally put in a script that you are going to release to the public Then the One-Liner itself is a single line within the script and you can then add comments after the code explaining everything that is happening, or just put that in the Comments field in the header. That way you can pack as much punch in a single line as possible as long as you are willing to explain everything that is happening. Enjoy!! Ammon Johnson --- CIO Addept ------------------ (www.addept.ws) 435-616-2322 -------- ([ammon--addept--ws])

I saw this somewhere else the other day, and I thought it would be cool to do it in rebol:) view/title center-face lay: layout [ h1 "Are you satisfied with your salary?" across button "Yes" [unview] pad 100 button "No" feel [over: func [f a e][ f/offset/x: either e/x < 250 [250][130] f/offset/y: 40 + random 40 show f ]]] "Urgent employee poll" Anton.

Very Nice! Thanks!! Ammon Johnson --- CIO Addept ------------------ (www.addept.ws) 435-616-2322 -------- ([ammon--addept--ws])

Ammon, At 10:31 PM 11/24/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi, > First off we have to consider that none of the submitions (so far) are >as possible as long as you are willing to explain everything that is >happening.

Very frustrating Anton! :>) At 06:37 PM 11/25/2002 +1100, you wrote:

Great Ammon, This "ruling" update is fine for me and welcome for the others too I hope... Regards, Gerard

Anton:

> I saw this somewhere else the other day, > and I thought it would be cool to do it > in rebol:)