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REBOL & Flash/Shockwave

 [1/7] from: carl:s:rebol at: 5-Dec-2002 9:46


Cyphre writes:
>>.... moreover this would push Rebol into >>nowadays real multimedia spheres or even to 3D game and entertainment and >>kill all current popular and monopolistic giants like Macromedia Flash, >>Shockwave etc..
As an old multimedia guy myself (Amiga, American Multimedia, Videostream, Bay, ABC TV, PBS TV, etc.), there's nothing I'd rather see than REBOL/media! However, I'd like to ask the group: doesn't Flash totally dominate this area? What problems does Flash have that would allow REBOL to gain a foothold? Would anyone accept it? I'm open minded, but I need some feedback from the group on this one. Please keep it short and to the point so I can afford the time to read it. Thanks. -Carl REBOL Chief

 [2/7] from: alans::cuervo::stanford::edu at: 5-Dec-2002 10:35


from: Carl
> Cyphre writes: > >>.... moreover this would push Rebol into
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> does Flash have that would allow REBOL to gain a foothold? Would anyone > accept it?
I have to wonder about beating them out at this point. Not impossible, but the alternative would really have to sing! The one thing that could help is not being IE centric, as most of these things tend to be. I tend to live in unix/linux/Amiga land and have huge problems getting the plugins to run on anything my the occasional use windows box. But, we all know I'm in the serious minority there. I'd love to see REBOL/media, too, but not sure it should be a primary time sink.
> I'm open minded, but I need some feedback from the group on this one. > Please keep it short
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
Alan <[alans--cuervo--stanford--edu]>

 [3/7] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 5-Dec-2002 19:41


Carl at REBOL wrote:
> Cyphre writes: >>> .... moreover this would push Rebol into
<<quoted lines omitted: 13>>
> Please keep it short > and to the point so I can afford the time to read it. Thanks.
OK, so will try to keep it short: 1) When demoing things, if I win some users for Rebol/View alredy - it is because it differs from typical win apps! My users like it! 2) Eye-candy (demos) were always important. 3) YOU created one of the coolest technologies ever! Why to limit it? I have not worked in Flash, but Cyphre and Oldes do! Programming in View/VID is pleasure. If similar concept could be applied to other media stuff, Rebol would imo definitely win some developer's audience. Remember - what is natural for ppl? My answer is - ppl always looked for multimedia. I can assure you, that smoothness of old A500 7MHz machine still causes some wows with default PC Windows scrolling used ppl. Wasn't it cool times? -pekr-

 [4/7] from: nitsch-lists:netcologne at: 5-Dec-2002 21:48


Carl at REBOL wrote:
> Cyphre writes: >>> .... moreover this would push Rebol into
<<quoted lines omitted: 15>>
> -Carl > REBOL Chief
Don't know flash well, and how it competes. rebol has: short download times for graphics, because of effects and that, working messengers, could be embedded in websites, rarely crashs, is interesting by itself, gives quick success-feeling. cheap "ide". a place for rebol-programming could eventually be made a little attraction on websites, like guestbook today. -Volker

 [5/7] from: carl:s:rebol at: 5-Dec-2002 14:37


Volker, not sure what you mean by:
> cheap "ide". >a place for rebol-programming could eventually be made a little attraction >on websites, >like guestbook today.
Could you explain that? Thanks. -Carl

 [6/7] from: nitsch-lists:netcologne at: 6-Dec-2002 1:18


Carl at REBOL wrote:
> Volker, not sure what you mean by: >> cheap "ide".
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> Could you explain that? Thanks. > -Carl
Hmm, hopefully i know enough english to argue, normally use it only computer-related.. Private Web-pages have this typical stuff like "email me", guestbook and such. i imagined a guestbook with a rebol-interpreter-applet, where people could post and test short funny scripts, to have some additional fun. Rebol has a certain kind of ridle-ability, because it is short and surprising. Also, Newspapers have some "standard" tools like crosswords, chess, weather, horoscope. Rebol-ridles could be another such tool. Like Chess not everyone would solve them, but they give a kind of intellectual flair, and some of the non-solvers at least have a look to the ridle, some thinking and a look to the solution. And thinking about horoscope and biorythmus: having such programms on the site, people would really use and trust them *g*. And short understandable code for the curious could be supplied too. With "ide" in rebol on the webpage (edit, output-field minimally). You know, not reading descriptions or "click yes/no" or move mouse. change a letter on the screen, run, see what happens. try. In the very old days with homecomputers, BASIC and declaration-free programming (input, print, no gui) people where interested in programming. Specially Scientific American had small interesting programming projects. So having a rebol-page with cute one-liners, graphics demos, find the bug and something could be another feature for web-magazines. -Volker

 [7/7] from: rebol-list2:seznam:cz at: 9-Dec-2002 20:37


Hello Carl, Thursday, December 5, 2002, 6:46:07 PM, you wrote: CaR> Cyphre writes:
>>>.... moreover this would push Rebol into >>>nowadays real multimedia spheres or even to 3D game and entertainment and >>>kill all current popular and monopolistic giants like Macromedia Flash, >>>Shockwave etc..
CaR> As an old multimedia guy myself (Amiga, American Multimedia, Videostream, CaR> Bay, ABC TV, CaR> PBS TV, etc.), there's nothing I'd rather see than REBOL/media! CaR> However, I'd like to ask the group: doesn't Flash totally dominate this CaR> area? What problems CaR> does Flash have that would allow REBOL to gain a foothold? Would anyone CaR> accept it? Today I spend all day working with the Flash. Flash is good for cartoons, but if you need to make complex application, it's like a hell. I'm working with Flash already several years but I always find myself lost in the deep structures... you have 2 lines of the action script in this movie, then you go to totaly other movie/button just to modify one line of code and so on. It's possible to do it if it's not too complex and if you don't need to work with movies, that are loaded from other files (it's neccesary if you don't want to have one huge file) I will try to make it short, if you make a mistake somewhere there is almost no change to find where, because you don't see any error messages, you only see that something is not working as should have... it's a hell, you need to searche all these movies and search where the problem can be... if you find it and you think your app. is working, you try to publish it as version MX just because you want to detect screen size.... it's working, but then you make a projector (exe file) and it's not working...aach... why? I still don't know and I think that it will be enough to stay with the version 5. About the MX UI try to put one checkbox to an empty movie and publish it, you will find out that it's 18kB .swf file -> The prototyping of user components seems to be so complicated even for me (I was not able to understand it yet) About Flash bitmaps.... I still don't know, why there is left and top pixel of the placed bitmap doubled! It;s almost imposible to get pixel precision for small bitmaps. If you don't need bitmaps and use more vector graphic, the speed is going rapidly down. About the embedded movies, I was trying to do it with mpg which has 240MB and my computer was totaly down. In the Flash doc. is written, that it's possible just to link movies (so they are not in the SWF) but I was not able to do it as well, maybe I had bad movie format. The QuickTime MOV which I have from Quicktime sample was refuced that it's a bad file. About connectivity, there is large limitation of it (from security reasons), you can use XMLSocket but only with ports >= 1024 so the is no chance to connect to telnet or irc as I can do it with Rebol. There is also security limitation to load movies from other domain then where the root movie is. What I like on Flash is that it's using only 7MB of my RAM even if I have really large scene (all the R-mud world). It must be cached somewhere. So... I think there is REAL chance for Rebol to get some place in the MM market. CaR> I'm open minded, but I need some feedback from the group on this one. CaR> Please keep it short CaR> and to the point so I can afford the time to read it. Thanks. hmm... it's not so short, sorry but I'm really frustrated of today's Flash work:( Hope, there will be one day Rebol/Media with Rebol which will be able to speak (as an old Amiga was able to) =( Oliva David )=======================( [oliva--david--seznam--cz] )== =( Earth/Europe/Czech_Republic/Brno )============================= =( coords: [lat: 49.22 long: 16.67] )=============================

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