[1/15] from: apwing:zonnet:nl at: 16-Dec-2003 11:02
Hello list, there is a difference between the documentation of the + function in the REBOL dictionary and the one I get with HELP +. In the first one usage says that + a b should work, while the last one says usage should be a + b. Now when I try it at the console I get for:
>> 1 + 2
>> + 1 2 >>
so in the last case no value seems to be returned. Which makes me think that the USAGE direction of the Dictionary is bad. (Is that correct?) When i do:
>> print [ + 1 2 ]
the value "?op?" is returned. And when I do:
>>reduce [ + 1 2 ]
something similar is returned. Obviously these values are related to + being an OP! value as in:
>> op? :+
== true but still it is not totally clear to me why the word "op" or even "?op?" is being returned instead of "op!" in the 2 last cases. Perhaps one of you can explain this to me? Thanx so far! Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Arie van Wingerden http://home.zonnet.nl/rebolution ICQ 343101686 ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Read To: [rebol-list--rebol--com] Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:35 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: What does REBOL fix? On 14-Dec-03, [SunandaDH--aol--com] wrote:
> Can we find a snappy one-liner? > http://www.paulgraham.com/fix.html
REBOL: XML can't parse itself. -- Carl Read
[2/15] from: antonr:iinet:au at: 17-Dec-2003 13:45
This has been fixed in REBOL/View 188.8.131.52.1
>> + 1 2
>> type? (+ 1 2)
== integer! Anton.
[3/15] from: alessandro:manotti:bridgestone-eu at: 17-Dec-2003 10:08
Hi all, I'm a new user in your mailing-list. I noticed many upgrades (bug-fix, enhancements, etc...) were performed in Rebol/View/Pro (please look at below, for example). But, what about Rebol Command/View? I bought Rebol command/view, and I don't know how to upgrade it to fix bugs. If I use "upgrade" command in console, Rebol/Command/View will download Core031.zip... what can I do with it? Can I upgrade my Rebol version using Rebol Core or Rebol/View? Alternately, can I use my Rebol/Command/View license key to use Rebol/View/PRO as a licensed user (enabled Pro features)?
[4/15] from: antonr:iinet:au at: 18-Dec-2003 1:51
command/view and upgrades - was: Re: Understanding +
Hello, I don't have Command, but I believe it is superceded recently by the Rebol SDK. In that case, see if you can get an upgrade to sdk. (I think you still need to pay a fair chunk, but you should check it out.) The "upgrade" command won't help you here, I am afraid. The core it downloads is just Rebol/Core, no more. "Upgrade" needs to be modernised... I strongly doubt that you can use your license key from Command in Rebol/View. But, if you don't have one in the directory, it doesn't hurt to copy it to rebol-view-dir/license.key and see if it works. (The console will tell you on startup if it is licensed or not.) Anton.
[5/15] from: alessandro::manotti::bridgestone-eu::com at: 17-Dec-2003 17:48
Thank you. I will ask to Rebol company what I have to do. (but... why they still sell Rebol/Command/View?) Bye!
[6/15] from: apwing:zonnet:nl at: 17-Dec-2003 18:54
Re: Understanding +
Thanks Anton! I was using 184.108.40.206.1. which explains it then. Met vriendelijke groet / with kind regards, Arie van Wingerden http://home.zonnet.nl/rebolution ICQ 343101686 ----- Original Message ----- From: Anton Rolls To: [rebol-list--rebol--com] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:45 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Understanding + This has been fixed in REBOL/View 220.127.116.11.1
>> + 1 2
>> type? (+ 1 2)
== integer! Anton.
[7/15] from: cybarite:sympatico:ca at: 5-Jan-2004 18:40
hmmmm can't seem to leave this topic.... Back in 2001, I added some sections to Carl's base work for VID - it was called %easyvid.r Carl's original is in the REBOL library at: http://www.reboltech.com/library/html/easy-vid.html It has "runnable code" in it - i.e. see the code sample then click on it to open a view that shows result. It was incomplete then and is now a bit more out of date. But when I have to do some View screens, I refer back to it because it is easy to see the syntax and a click to try it out. Is there any interest in resurrecting this stuff? I think it is the best way to document the visual REBOL .... that's why Carl made the first version of it. <
[8/15] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 5-Jan-2004 19:23
I agree entirely and it seems that the cookbook already contains some new View and VID stuff (can be considered as old stuff too for the experienced REBOLERS! ) to add to %easy-vid.r . Most was written by Carl and other voluntaries. See the cookbook http://www.rebol.net/cookbook/ and look for text list, windows, scroll, etc... Doesn't seem too long to adapat for the runnable DEMO. Who wants to try his hands at it. It will be a sure winner! Gerard
[9/15] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 5-Jan-2004 19:35
Yes I would like to see this and the ref doc tool rescuscitated. the ref-doc.r is my single most usefull rebol self-help tool. It is out of date, but man its usefull. it would be fun to merge both ideas by creating a base viewer and using m-d-p files as catalogues which can be loaded/edited. I think this is already the case, but just in case... for sure, some updating would need to be done. I am starting work on STEEL|forge this week. Maybe I could tackle this documentation issue as a workable prototype to try out the ideas I have for forge. Instead of a dummy application, I might end-up with something which actually helps out, on its own too! Something that is one script, loads catalogues, saves local appended versions. With some collaboration from rebol.org, we could include a submit button where we could all send our usefull tidbits and load them, a la ref-doc. This would be really effective with stuff from the list. Simple and effective, ALL user comments considered. I know this has been taunted by many of us and started at least in part too, but I am now at a point, where I can actually put time on end-user applications, through forge. -MAx --- You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution, but in the end, being part of the problem is much more fun.
[10/15] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 6-Jan-2004 0:56
> Yes I would like to see this and the ref doc tool rescuscitated. > > the ref-doc.r is my single most usefull rebol self-help tool. It is out of date, but man its usefull. it would be fun to merge
both ideas by creating a base viewer and using m-d-p files as catalogues which can be loaded/edited.
I was asking for what was the ref-doc.r script but was unable to find any reference about it. Searching for more info I found a rebdoc.r script in the library. After launching it from the REBOL 1.2.8 console I got the following : REBOL Word Summary for 18.104.22.168.1 6-Jan-2004/0:06:08-5:00 288 words Why do you say that it is a bit outdated since REBOL can regenerate a new words list each time it is launched. Let me know if we talk about the same script. By the way I still think that what is missing the most is an example list accompanying all these REBOL words as used in and by a current programmer to solve most of its simpler tasks (and later in an advanced section the not so simple ones too). The Cookbook is already going in this direction for some View and VID advanced features not really described formally elsewhere (or simply documented and illustrated with very simple and isolated tasks). The same is also partly achieved with current REBOL books but the online doc is missing these simple examples. Personally for me as a newcomer the best examples would be based on small real tasks and algorithms - in a similar way my old programming books did before for other languages. I will soon try my best at adapting some Lisp like code based upon the Dr. Scheme environment and tutorials and see if I can put it at work here in the easy-VID environment. May be the help from some Logo examples will be useful too but I don't want to reinvent the wheel again since there is probably much work that has been done formally here by someone that doesn't take anything for granted (I don't want to name anybody in particular but I love the way Joel Neely, Carl Read, Gregg and many others always get to the right solution by following a proven analytical process when some problem arises on the ML.) May be some ppl would like to contribute "lightly" and share some of their small code snippets used for testing the many REBOL words they learned in the past - I alas suppose they kept these and they can take some time to feed us with them or at least they can invent some others on the fly to help others when request is done as is generally the case here on the ML. It seems to me this must be done now to let advanced ppl get more free time in the future for harder tasks - even if it is probably a pleasure for them to continue helping newbies if I relate by the popularity of the questions answered here on the ML. At least if the newbies can fly a bit more by themselves they will cease to blame the bad quality of the online information available about REBOL.
> I am starting work on STEEL|forge this week. Maybe I could tackle this documentation issue as a workable prototype to try out
the ideas I have for forge. Instead of a dummy application, I might end-up with something which actually helps out, on its own too!
> Something that is one script, loads catalogues, saves local appended versions. With some collaboration from rebol.org, we could
include a submit button where we could all send our usefull tidbits and load them, a la ref-doc.
I'll let advanced users like you and many others in the community to start in this way. Regards, Gerard
[11/15] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 5-Jan-2004 23:14
Hi Cybarite, C> Is there any interest in resurrecting this stuff? EasyVID is awesome. I keep a link handy to a few things and it's one of them. I think it would be great to see it updated. -- Gregg
[12/15] from: cybarite:sympatico:ca at: 6-Jan-2004 6:13
I have started to revive my 2001 version of easy-vid.r. ---Script and Outline I will have a version by Friday in two formats: a. vid-usage.r that can be posted to the script library b. the vid-usage.leo which is the LEO outline for the same ---Why Leo I like LEO for organizing scripts (although I have not heard of many people using it for REBOL). You need to install Python to run it but this is fairly painless. refer: http://leo.sourceforge.net/ You can use the version that you like. I'll have to investigate where I can promote the .leo file. ---Updates I would like to see update requests on AltME only. There is now an EasyVid Group on the REBOL world for this purpose. ---Exclusion If you do not want to see the EasyVid group updates, send me (cybarite) a message on AltME privately and I will exclude you from that group.
[13/15] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 6-Jan-2004 8:51
Hi Cybarite, Nice start. I am impatient to see the new results. I'll have to revive my AltMe but I think it will be of some real value this time - more than chatting for chatting as I was doing before. Regards, Gerard
[14/15] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 6-Jan-2004 14:00
> a. vid-usage.r that can be posted to the script library
> b. the vid-usage.leo which is the LEO outline for the same
more good news !! Delighted to hear you use Leo. So I assume Leo will be you prime editing tool for easy-vid? Hopefully adding a small plug-in will allow one to run easy-vid directly from Leo. thanks - Jason
[15/15] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 8-Jan-2004 22:05
Hi Cybarite ( Sorry I don't really know your first name) and everybody, I also found a moment to look back at the %easy-vid.r content. Definitely needs a content update for what was then promised as the last missing part when Carl did the job. I am glad that you kindly offered to the community your help to advance this part of the documentation - if I well understood your intent. I'd be happy too if you wanted to contact me personally so we could exchange about what content you exactly planned to put in there. May be I can help in some way. Don't hesitate to send me an email since I will later add myself some parts to it when I will know more about the way VID internals do their work. But I have so much to learn about REBOL itself before. And while I looked around for what Carl and collaborators had done with the cookbook and the library I found precisely what I was looking for as a newcomer. This can be expressed as follows and I will follow my intuition to try to let the community implement it this way if possible. In fact it should not be too difficult as many of the pieces are already in place. Just some optimization and this will be OK. I'll address separately the FORUM that was pointed here recently in another thread. As Sunanda also pointed before I propose my name to help advance this file as I view it as a requirement to help any new beginner navigate and learn more and easily. During this time period I will also tryi to react positively to all the suggestions that have been done and I hope will continue to flow until some useful and durable difference appears to all the material that already exists so that it become even more useful than now. Don't forget that there is an enormous amount of material already accessible - I simply suggest to fill some holes : some occur in the presentation, some in the indexing and some in the examples offered (or not offered yet) as support for beginners. That's all. In my head and everybody is welcome to react to my teacher's view, the things actually present themselves as I remember from my previous first reading (already a couple of years ago) : Remember that here I will not take into account all the parts related to the professional use (as done by programmers) of all the products developed and distributed by RT but I will concentrate only on the learning part of the REBOL Core language and its View counterpart - which I have to learn completely from start so I will surely need help... A- A main web site (REBOL.COM) with : 1. The official DOCs for Core, View and other products 2. Many other DOCs to help learn and use "some part of" the fundamentals. (those were appropriately named tutorials but could have also been named as "Quick start" since they fall short to further illustrate other more real small tasks as those found in programmer's diary. I would say of them that these DOCs do a real job to present the reader at a glance the spirit in which REBOL and its other constituents (View) can be used for many "simple" tasks" - some are simple because of the power of REBOL but nevertheless they are simple even for a newbie to grasp. 3. The official library - Remember that its actual main function is not specifically related at all with newbies looking for learning material not per se but more due to the fact that most of the material sitting in the repository has not been designed - except for some exception - to be used as real teaching material. They look more as concrete projects that were learned by programmers - some being themselves new to REBOL but others being gurus and the rest standing in the between. So the library cannot be BLAMED and even less flamed for anything in this sense and netheir their authors. But I personally know the time and effort required to produce some useful teaching material and I must say that the most requiring is the one produced for the self-educated person. In this regards it is similar in some extent to the way a computer program must be prepared and tested before final production launching. If not completely tested for fault tolerance there is no warranty that it will become a success story. Remember when tried some program coded by another ppl. The chances are great it did not function in all cases. When it arrived how did you react ? Think that a newcomer will do the same. So we must be better prepared to deliver some material as good as can be done with our resources. In fact nothing forces us to do anything all if we don't want but having been frustrated myself in the beginning, I hope to fill the gaps I have met on my road. Many of what blocked me before is already present but if I want to present ( or review) some new material I will have to rely on a new knoledge I will acquire or share this responsibility with some of the ML. And I am sure that it will be done because we all have this feeling of something that can be done better and we are the ones that are better placed to help others in this regards. I will leave out other parts that I'm not considering useful in the learning arena for the moment. B - A secondary web site (REBOL.NET) with : 4- The cookbook that is actually beginning to fill the gap described above.So we must all contribute keep up the good job already done there. There will be some need to classify what has already been done and even as suggested Sunanda to include some category in the Library that refers to the cookbook - and to some extent the actual work done should be in a near converted and included (say the two sites should better be intergated together instead of doing overlapping work) C - Many other web sites (not officially RT supported ) with : 5 - Many useful but sparse information pieces (tutorials, tips, tricks, codes, examples) for example: Compkarori, Vanilla, REBOLFrance, Forums, Wikis, Chats, AltMe, ... even IOS and View Rebs network are in the band but they are officially part of REBOL. We can't act upon them but their content can be referred and their owner can contribute to our web site for some small specific part if we ask them to look at what they can offer. D- A lot of distribution tools and exchange of information Should be minimized. Web presentation (XML + HTML + DB) should be used preferably to other medium (see below) but REBOL is welcome to help automate the tasks and help the generation and other tasks like is done with the library. I will probably try Vanilla (with recent Jason's invitation to support me) as my personal work tool. E- Not much of outside visibility - better than a couple of years however since Google reveals about 75000 pages when searching the REBOL word. We'll have to plan and generate some real META Keyword tags to help Google find our work This should be added automatically to any HTML HEADER page by any HTML REBOL generator. What I want to add to the library is some as clear as possible examples with related explanations in the following categories : 1. Coding examples for every Word appearing in the official dictionary. a- on a word by word basis with trivial but useful examples b- can and will be teached in standalone mode c- I would also like them to be put in perspective when compared to something like, say VB. This choice is very personal - and not negociable for me - since this is the best I can do. If others want to contribute with their own, they are welcome to do so. d- every example will be offered according the following ways until something is done to fusion them in a new format if necessary : a- easy-vid as executable with explanations included - The ultimate DEMO (try ans test) environment I dreamed of all my life as a teacher (for VB) but it could be enhanced further by incorporating the EDITOR with save with versioning allowed on the original file in use or a copy. Later the inclusion of some way to view, select and mix parts of code coming from external sources should be added too. (Looks like some kind of app for you Max with your Slim ;-) b- Web - HTML (until I learn to work with XML) c- Library (REBOL.ORG) for view and download from the Web. d- Vanilla (during experimentation, exchange with others and cataloging) Discussion open until tomorrow. I must go to bed. Bye everybody, Gerard P.S. Sorry for the lenghty mail. If you already some part of code related to any word send them to me. I'll classify them as soon as received and begin the work. Others that have questions or suggestions can send me emails too - directly if not of general concern. I'll try to use as much transparency as possible.