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Rebol programs

 [1/15] from: sunandadh::aol::com at: 19-Mar-2002 10:59


[riusa--email--it] :
> does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies) > heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not > small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc...
How big is big? I'm a single person and I've developed two stand-alone applications for non-profit organizations. One is 6,000 lines. The other is 4,000, but likely to double in size if I ever get round to implementing the second half. I count lines of code as being any non-blank, non-comment line that contains something other than a square bracket, so, by my count, the code below is six lines: ;; ============================== Normalise-url: func [url-in] ;; ============================== ;; ------------------------------- ;; Ensures URL starts with default ;; protocol and server name ;; ------------------------------- ;; Dev notes: need to extend to add ;; default server if absolute URL ;; format -- will need server as ;; input parameter. [ if (copy/part url-in 7) = "http://" [return url-in] if (copy/part url-in 4) = "www." [return join "http://" url-in] return join "http://www." url-in ] ;; end func My total income from Rebol-related activities to date is about USD100. So it's not a big money-spinner for me. Sunanda.

 [2/15] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 19-Mar-2002 10:15


Hello,
>I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally >with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system. >I'm not talking about IOS, but a freeware application, an >application ".r" not a ".exe" (executable) application like IOS.
If this can be of some help to someone, in my current REBOL learning quest, I have decided to begin studying the internals of the Vanilla Application which deserves the Vanilla web site. As far as I know, this app is written entirely in REBOL (.r) and this is not a trivial one. Furthermore this could be the kind of show off you look for : a complete REBOL driven app. doing its GUI looking face with the help of a browser instead of its native /VIEW face. May be you can convert it to do the same with the /VIEW face instead of its original one. And while you are at it, you could simplify the "snip" writing and linking process so that it follows up to lesser extent the HTML coding and tends more to look like the make-doc-pro text creation process (or a similar wiki Clone process if you prefer). What do you think about it ? This last point is what I want to do with some time involved but I don't plan to use the /VIEW face at first. I prefer to keep the HTML way of doing thing for the moment. Hope it will be useful for you too to study this app. may be just to get started and get an idea for what to show off ... Gerard

 [3/15] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 19-Mar-2002 10:31


<< does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies) heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc... >> Well, RT says that REBOL is intended for programming "in the small". I know Maarten has mentioned that they've built a substantial system with it (16 KLOC I think he said) but wouldn't it be better to compare systems based on functionality, rather than the amount of code required? Less code is better, right? :) I'm workingon a project now that lets users access remote hardware, view and pull data from those devices, and graphically annotate the data (for collaboration via IOS). It uses Rugby and pdf-maker, but the main server piece is only about 200 lines and the main app itself is only about 1,000. Hardly "heavy", but very funtional. << Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific operations! >> What about the View Desktop? --Gregg

 [4/15] from: christophe:coussement:mil:be at: 19-Mar-2002 14:25


> does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies) > heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not > small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc...
[Coussement Christophe] I'm not sure of your definition of "big", but I think we did ;-) We are a big "company" (Belgian Armed Forces) and we created a "big" psychotechnical assessment system of about 100,000 LOC, which has been used by more than 8000 applicants and generated more than 3,500,000 millions rows of data. Hope this information helps ! ==christophe

 [5/15] from: riusa:email:it at: 19-Mar-2002 11:31


Hi all, does anybody know someone who created (single persons or companies) heavy programs in Rebol? For heavy programs I intend big programs, not small utilities/games like mines, some email readers, etc... Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific operations! I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system. I'm not talking about IOS, but a freeware application, an application ".r" not a ".exe" (executable) application like IOS. What do you about this? -- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Con 62 Euro ti diamo la stampante Lexmark Color JetPrinter Z22 ...e anche la QuickCam Logitech! Incredibile offerta! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=363&d=19-3

 [6/15] from: chalz:earthlink at: 20-Mar-2002 0:19


> << Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site > built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific > operations! >> > > What about the View Desktop?
I missed the original post somewhere, so I'm quoting from Greg's post. I once asked [feedback--rebol--com] why they were using Perl scripts instead of REBOL for things such as searching the site. The response was that the site host, at the time, didn't allow them full access to the site and didn't want them running "unverified" EXE's, so they had to make do with Perl. This was a while back, though. *shrugs*

 [7/15] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 20-Mar-2002 1:27


From: <[riusa--email--it]> wrote
>Another question: why "www.rebol.com" has not a full-featured site >built using rebol interface? I can use Rebol only for some specific >operations!
I totally agree...go figure::: it's a lame shame + yes makes very little [bizness] sense. But then most mad geniuses are like that.. I've met top top graphic designer's who don't have business cards, or web designers who are too busy to do their own sites. Too many great ideas too little time for the daily stuff.
>I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally >with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
If you want to see [and demonstrate] an elegant rebol application and Websites built 100% with rebol then check out Vanilla! http://www.langreiter.com/space/start http://www.langreiter.com/space/vanilla-documentation 100% Rebol scripts [served by Apache]. Presumably Apache could be replaced by REBOL web server, but that may not be worth it. For skilled Rebol programmers vanilla is formidable tool. Easy to modify.. lots of cool potential there especially when linked to client-side rebol p2p, /Viewlets, Graphics, Flash etc. I am working right now on a new collaborative netart site based on Vanilla. ./Jason

 [8/15] from: bobr:resume:dprc at: 21-Mar-2002 11:09


Charles wrote:
> I missed the original post somewhere, so I'm quoting from Greg's post.
for those who missed it, the original post follows my reply. I have written quite a few heavy programs. I do not count lines. I call each an application to differentiate it from a utility. rebol as my solution foundation Sometimes the application is actually several rebol scripts which cooperate but run at different times or only when certain events happen. For example a rebol based CGI runs when the page is fetched, another when the form completes and another later when cron must do hourly processing and still another when distribution to mirror sites is complete. I could, in several cases, have built one monolithic script which is re-called for each of these events but that is not my style. If refactoring yields some common code then I can use 'do or 'include to advantage. I add to that with 'default so that I can unit-test. I simultaneously build up from the bottom (with small unit tested utils) and down from the top for these major applications. 'include and 'default are add-ons refined with help from others here. Applications built this way that I am allowed to talk about: a router reprogrammer, several newsfeed handlers and a website 'enlivener'. The first one goes out and collects data about equipment connected to a certain model of router used for remote support. It reprograms the router if the support team needs to add equipment and make it NAT reachable. Its an embedded application which cannot make use of rebol/view. It knows how to self-update if the home site publishes revisions. The enlivener application runs for every page on a website and replaces sample values with live data much like xml promises to do. It has the advantage of not requiring a format change to xml when upper management at the bank approves a page layout alteration. It replaces perl and mod-perl for performance with a lower cost of maintenance. The web design company does not have to send me xml, they upload static pages as templates right to QA. QA sees a live page with real data. If QA approves the change, the same engine is also used in production as well. In this final phase the names of web sites in URL references change to get images from some image server (like akamai) based on rules the bank laid out months ago. Same with nav links that would normally point to the design company server or to QA servers. I did not do the whole site with rebol functioning as the server itself because it had to cooperate with other legacy apps already there. I did not have the luxury of rebol/command at the time. [riusa--email--it] wrote:

 [9/15] from: rebol:optushome:au at: 22-Mar-2002 6:42


> I totally agree...go figure::: it's a lame shame + yes makes very little > [bizness] sense.
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> >I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally > >with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system.
The site is built by REBOL. It is published and uploaded by site building scripts which produce the static HTML. Some of the old site building scripts should still be floating around in the libraries. Cheers, Allen K

 [10/15] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 21-Mar-2002 23:56


Allen Kamp <[rebol--optushome--com--au]> wrote:
> The site is built by REBOL. It is published and uploaded by site building > scripts which produce the static HTML. Some of the old site building scripts > should still be floating around in the libraries.
aha.. Love to hear more about it... Is it written up anywhere? Do you know why there is no obvious "about this site" description with links to the rebol scripts? Any reason the pages are static? Not necessarily bad, just very curious and rather baffled. cheers ./Jason

 [11/15] from: al:bri:xtra at: 22-Mar-2002 19:02


> > >I wish to create (or to see an existing one) a site visible totally > > >with Rebol. I think it could demonstrate the power of this system. > > The site is built by REBOL.
My site is built in my eText dialect and interpreted by my eText, HTML and Site Rebol dialect scripts. But then I cheat and use a free FTP program to get it to my site provider. :( That's 'cause I haven't yet worked out how a Rebol equivalent of the make program and to only update as needed. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/

 [12/15] from: riusa:email:it at: 22-Mar-2002 8:56


If I understood well, Vanilla was built with CGI in Rebol. But Rebol is not only a CGI language, but has much power in network protocol management, GUI system, etc... CGI can be built with a lot of languages (I write in Python, which is a very good language for CGI programs...) but I think the power of Rebol was in a very small client program that someone can download (small like an HTML file, like a Macromedia Flash file), has a good GUI system (always very few bytes!), I can create client programs which directly use HTTP, FTP, TCP/IP, etc... with very few lines of program. Further more, Rebol interpreter (when it will become even a plug-in? Like a Macromedia Flash player?!) is very small (think about Python (big!), think about Java runtime machine (big!)). -- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: VolaSMS, il software pi=F9 completo per inviare e ricevere SMS dal tuo PC Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=276&d=22-3

 [13/15] from: riusa:email:it at: 22-Mar-2002 9:37


I'm very happy to see many people create programs bigger than a tic-tac- toe! This is important for me, since more people/companies use Rebol for professional applications and more are the chance for Rebol to impose itself in the market. =======================================================
> Charles wrote: > > I missed the original post somewhere, so I'm quoting from Greg's
post.
> for those who missed it, > the original post follows my reply.
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> do hourly processing and still another when distribution > to mirror sites is complete.
-- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Il modo pi=F9 semplice e conveniente per mandare bouquet e composizioni floreali in tutta Italia. Rapporto personalizzato con il Tuo fiorista, ad i prezzi pi=F9 bassi del Web. La qualit=E0 =E8 garantita! Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=367&d=22-3

 [14/15] from: rebol:optushome:au at: 22-Mar-2002 20:58


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[jason--cunliffe--verizon--net]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:56 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Rebol programs
> "Allen Kamp" <[rebol--optushome--com--au]> wrote: > > > The site is built by REBOL. It is published and uploaded by site
building
> > scripts which produce the static HTML. Some of the old site building
scripts
> > should still be floating around in the libraries. > > aha.. > Love to hear more about it... > Is it written up anywhere? > Do you know why there is no obvious "about this site" description with
links to
> the rebol scripts? > Any reason the pages are static? Not necessarily bad, just very curious
and
> rather baffled. > > cheers > ./Jason
I'm sure Carl probably has a later version by now, but here is the old one http://www.rebol.com/cgi-bin/fcs/fcp.pl?words=site+builder&d=/library/html/b uild-site.html Also of interest in how REBOL is used daily by Carl & RT. http://www.rebolforces.com/zine/rzine-1-01.html#sect8. Cheers, Allen K

 [15/15] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 22:51


Hi Andrew,
> My site is built in my eText dialect and interpreted by my eText, HTML and > Site Rebol dialect scripts. But then I cheat and use a free FTP program to > get it to my site provider. :( That's 'cause I haven't yet worked out how
a
> Rebol equivalent of the make program and to only update as needed.
I've uploaded to my website the script that handles the FTP upload for codeconscious.com. See the section called "How these pages were created" on the following page. http://www.codeconscious.com/rebol/rebol-scripts.html To generate my site I use a slightly modified version of the text-to-html program that Carl made before make-doc for all the content on codeconscious.com. I have a build-site script that recursively travels through a source directory and emits a mirror structure but of web pages. Along the way it detabs rebol scripts and edits the html pages generated from the modified make-spec program to include buttons etc. Finally a site upload scripts uploads via FTP any changed HTML pages. It simplisticly determines a change from the size of the file which is not guaranteed but the site admin (me) is watching. A checksum would be better. So making a change on my site involves (1) edit text file (2) build-site (3) site upload. A single change takes well under a minute. This simplistic scheme has proved remarkably flexible and easy to deal with. It is getting a bit old and creaky now, and I know that I could produce a neater set of scripts but, hey, it works. Regards, Brett.

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