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InformIT.com Articles Introduction to Water™ A New Native We

 [1/13] from: kemp:extelligence at: 28-Aug-2002 11:45


Creating a Web services with a single platform such as J2EE typically requires the use of a dozen or more technologies and languages such as XML, HTML, SQL, XSLT, JSP, JavaServlets, JavaScript, JavaDoc, CSS, and shell scripts. In contrast, Water adheres to a Learn Once, Use Everywhere" philosophy that allows you to apply a simple set of methods to all aspects of development. Water leverages your current investment in technology by integrating with existing systems and Web services. Water can eliminate the need for most special-purpose languages and tools thus lowering development costs." Hmmm. Never heard anything like THAT before... :) I totally agree with the first sentence, though. Current web development practices are INSANEly burdensome, and although I don't believe in silver bullets, there has to be a middle ground. REBOL, for me, is part of that middle ground. I think I recall someone on this list mentioning something I agree with totally - XML is heirarchical in nature, and most of our problems are not - so XML is not going to get us very far by it's very structure, never mind the inefficiencies of transformation, marshalling, large data packets, unmarshalling, parsing, transforming, etc. Water is a Java 2 app, BTW, and I bet that most folks will find out quickly they need to drop into XML, HTML, SQL, XSLT, JSP, JavaServlets, JavaScript, JavaDoc, CSS, and shell scripts in order to reach all audiences with all browsers on all machines with the current mess we have created. That said, I would love to see REBOL embeddable in browsers (REBOL Web Start/Services, anyone?), and IOS seriously scaleable/multithreaded/multiprocessor on the backend. REBOL is a great language with a ton of potential (500K with a compositing GUI on 42 platforms is nothing short of AMAZING), but the world is HTML, JavaScript and browsers for quite a while yet, and REBOL has to play in that sandbox - more than just HTML/XML parsing support, it needs to be integrated. Kemp

 [2/13] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 29-Aug-2002 14:07


Hi Rebolers, Not much answers to the former invitation, regarding a collective work to create an Extensible REBOL Development Framework ;-( - Summer must be a thing of the past or is it a sign of time ??? So how about a follow-on to the "naked objects" (http://nakedobjects.org) concept introduced here by Andrew a few day ago. To get a quick and dirty sense of all this - download the draft-book.pdf (Only 104 KB). Seems to me it's a Nice approach - return to the source - but with a new twist this time . Read-on to know more about it !!! All or part of this and/or other paradigms (I introduce some others below...) could/should be used as a basis ( or simply let them be our inspiring MUSES !!! if we can't find them any other utility ;-))) for helping our community to set a DEV FRAMEWORK standard and may be develop together our own Extensible REBOL Dev Framework (could be dubbed the ERF - not really an Elf but very close to it, isn't it? ;-))) May be someone could even suggest a bad solution - a first draft in other words - just to be enhanced by the other members of this ML. I would do it but I am surely not qualified enough for this kind of work but I can help recrute and support for the job while it is done. Who else want to be a part time coordinator/and/or collaborator for this task and help start this project - nobody has to start or finish it alone but someone must be in charge for the first draft on which we'll work after ?? Just for helping everybody to gear-up with this proposition, here are some more related ideas ... If you want to get some quick look at these other interesting concepts that have been applied elsewhere to help developers to deliver some nice and productive work, and the kind of tools that their producers gave to the whole World by letting them fall into the hands of "Content producers" after the Frameworks were up and running here are some refs : (Note that most of these products originate from some EDUCATIONAL need! and for the most part - the final "components" that are produced by the programmers are to be used by end-users and they must just PLUG-IN together like puzzle parts - this is precisely the metaphor used by the E-slate team- virtual puzzle pieces are worked with during the process of assembling software components together!) Name of the product or technology (Web link) =============================== E-slate (http://e-slate.cti.gr/Overview.htm) Don't miss the sections : Microworlds, Components and Developers Educational Object economy (alias eoe) http://www.eoe.org/foundation/projects.htm Look for the ESCOT project description GOE (http://goe.eoe.org/FMPro?-db=null.fp5&-format=goe/GOE_home.htm&-view) Get some look at a toolkit named GOE Educational Software components of Tomorrow (alias ESCOT) http://www.escot.org/resources/components/overview.html The same one I refered above : like a kind of toolbox we can hope to be able to develop easier using REBOL and its future Dev Framework ;-) SIMCALC (http://tango.mth.umassd.edu/) or http://www.simcalc.umassd.edu/NewWebsite/simcalcframe.html The Technology section at http://www.simcalc.umassd.edu/NewWebsite/software.html ============================================== A list of other tools of interest to EDUCATION aware ppl is referenced below for your convenience. It come from the RESOURCES section of the E-SLATE web site : Seems like I already saw some of them from my own searching ... Some are of great value ! Believe me... ============================================== AgentSheets (http://www.agentsheets.com/) Java Sketchpad (http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dynamic/java_gsp/index.html) Turtle Tracks (http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~dazuma/turtle/index.html ) Comspec (http://www.oslo.sintef.no/comspec/ ) COLIDE (http://collide.informatik.uni-duisburg.de/ ) Inteligent Pad (http://www.pads.or.jp/english/index.html ) Exploratory project (http://www.pads.or.jp/english/index.html ) Hope it will shake-up some of us - me being the first on the list - whatever TO BE or NOT TO BE is done with this DEV Framework project I am submitting for adoption ;-) Regards, Gerard

 [3/13] from: reffy:ulrich at: 29-Aug-2002 17:52


> Hi Rebolers, > > Not much answers to the former invitation, regarding a collective work to create an Extensible REBOL Development Framework ;-( - >
Development Framework? Could you hallucinate on this as opposed to Application Framework? Thanks, Dick

 [4/13] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 30-Aug-2002 12:21


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
> Framework ;-( > Summer must be a thing of the past or is it a sign of time ???
Hi, might be the message was to cryptic... I didn't got in the first reading. Well, I'm working on a rebol-framework just now. It includes the ideas of associative data model, nakedobjects ideas etc. I have an idea about the GUI already, I have the basic building blocks running.
> May be someone could even suggest a bad solution - a first > draft in other words - just to be enhanced by the other > members of this ML. I would do it but I am surely not > qualified enough for this kind of work but I can help recrute > and support for the job while it is done.
I have a first draft. But I'm not sure if releasing it makes a lot of sense at the moment. I'm an absolute fan of community development, but there are two sides of it: 1. I need to make progress as I don't want to work on a never ending project. I concentrate on doable ideas etc. Vision is good, but reality needs a solution. 2. Getting the same understanding and agreement about how to continue etc. is mostly impossible in a community process. This leads to the danger of forks for the different concepts. IMO this is the worst thing that can happen, we need to work on one framework. Therefore I think it might be better to develop the idea up to a useable level and release it than. I'm hoping that enough of the community will jump on and follow this direction than... I don't know if it will happen, we will see.
> Who else want to be > a part time coordinator/and/or collaborator for this task and > help start this project - nobody has to start or finish it > alone but someone must be in charge for the first draft on > which we'll work after ??
I can do this. But I can't spend a lot of time etc. We have a trainee that will start to program some script for me in Rebol. But he will need some time to ramp-up and doing framework development won't be his job in the next month. He can test etc. But not more.
> If you want to get some quick look at these other interesting > concepts that have been applied elsewhere to help developers > to deliver some nice and productive work, and the kind of > tools that their producers gave to the whole World by letting > them fall into the hands of "Content producers" after the > Frameworks were up and running here are some refs :
Thanks for the info. Robert

 [5/13] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 30-Aug-2002 6:18


Hi Gerard Thanks for a lot of interesting links. hmm.. I can see you are fired up about something potent, modular, edu-oriented and rebolistic. Please can you try to explain in a couple of paragraphs your main idea. thanks ./Jason

 [6/13] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 30-Aug-2002 14:12


Hi Robert, You wrote :
> Hi, might be the message was to cryptic... I didn't got in the first > reading.
-------------- Gerard ----------------- You are completely right Robert, since I have some difficulty to cope with my English, I often have to take long and winding roads to express my ideas, really longer than it could take in FRENCH, for example. Sorry about my muddy verbose English - I will try to be sharper and more concise in the future :-)) ------------- /Gerard ----------------
> Well, I'm working on a rebol-framework just now. It includes > the ideas of associative data model, nakedobjects ideas etc. I have an > idea about the GUI already, I have the basic building blocks running. > > I have a first draft.
-------------- Gerard ----------------- Nice , and I also suspect that Andrew is doing something like this too, based on similar foundations. -------------- /Gerard ----------------
> But I'm not sure if releasing it makes a lot of > sense at the moment. I'm an absolute fan of community development, but > there are two sides of it:
-------------- Gerard ----------------- I agree with you pov relative to the state the project has to worked before it will be of some usefulness to the community. I admit we will have to wait and see until someone whatever it will be you or anybody else or a team - will have a Useable toolkit to share with the rest of us and for getting some advice to help enhance the product together. As I already offered previously, I'll be glad to participate when you'll decide it is ready to be done. Until then I continue to study REBOL and other IDEs that should be of help in a near future - even if it is solely for the purpose of brainstorming before DESIGNING and HARD CODING a first too bad solution . -------------- /Gerard -----------------
> 1. I need to make progress as I don't want to work on a never ending > project. I concentrate on doable ideas etc. Vision is good, but reality > needs a solution.
-------------- Gerard ----------------- I agree with you too on this point. I often send up-front many ideas without having a good estimate of all the work that has to be done to get all of them functional. I appreciate to have some "realistic" guys like you and most of the ML members that are able to SAY : NO MORE when it has to be done ... even if this implies that I must wait for another more or less time period. At least I'm not staying inactive on my side either !!! -------------- /Gerard -----------------
> 2. Getting the same understanding and agreement about how to continue > etc. is mostly impossible in a community process. This leads to the
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> jump on and follow this direction than... I don't know if it will > happen, we will see.
-------------- Gerard ----------------- But here my pov is simply a matter of not going too far in a CUL-DE-SAC (dead end) while it could be done otherway before if some other external party had just eyed over your shoulder when it was time... and the time is before the HARD CODING begins. But I understand that with REBOL we can try and test better and more affordably than with other Programming Languages - generally speaking of. Even Carl and RT understood the fact you are submitting and to some point I agree with you. The only reason I am pushing against this so much is the time me have to wait to get a lot more - when compared to other communities like the Python one and more recently the Ruby one. Just to give an example of what is going on the side of the latter - Many of ML members want and have to wait for a new REBOL ActiveX Scripting Engine for MSIE. That is an other one than the Jscript and VBScript ones offered by MS. I already seen that Ruby has its own, mostly due to the fact that Ruby is not as closed as REBOL is for now. May be one solution would be RT just let a Hook to attach REBOL to other Languages, without having to get the PRO or COMMAND version. I am currently looking at some toolkit ( or I could even write one myself with some more time involved ...) that could help me to develop a WRAPPER around the REBOL engine for using it as another ActiveX scripting Engine. Borland's Delphi looks promising for this kind of hack even if I am not really a system programmer. But this also is asking a lot of time while letting some REBOL HOOK open for external use would be a lot shorter for Carl and his team. But he has his own reasons for not doing so and I can't necessary be waiting for him. Another field of interest is having an IDE develpped in REBOL for REBOL to help accelerate and standardize some develop-test-run cycle for REBOL scripting. Instead of always reinventing the wheel, we could be using some REAL templating system to start with when developing CONTEXTUAL apps. Similar in concept to the DIALECT one but could be used in a more VISUAL form than now. It's becoming more and more time consuming to look and study new approchaes and new code every time for newcomers when some ppl already stated on some very useful way to get things done. This knowledge should be better used than it is now - even if I pertinently know that everyone is giving the max for the others in this ML group. I reverently follow almost every thread - I am able to understand - on this ML and I really appreciate the spirit and time that is shared by every member. And I know we already have some library and a ZINE too - since I study code from both of them but time being what it is - In fact I would like to be part of some collective movement that would have as a goal to shorten the REBOL learning curve and enhance the App. Dev. process if it can be done - and I am sure it can. In a similar way, I am also currently working - shen free time is left - to find a way to fork a PHP or PERL script that could launc h a REBOL engine for doing CGI on ISPs HOSTs that don't want to support REBOL CGI with their APACHE Web server. My own Linux based ISP doesn't want to configure its APACHE server for letting me do my CGI with REBOL and I want to show him it's easy and safe to do it - even the way I plan to do it. I also already met and endorsed the proposed eREBOL solution ( which would act as a replacement for PHP) and I admit it can be used for some useful tasks related to WEB / HTML / XML generation and maintenance. But then I come back by suggesting with a simplified DIALECT version of the Water language I submitted to the ML, a couple of days ago. May be the PHP /PERL approach will not be very efficient but for some small load it could be sufficient for me and some eventual customers. Another alternative is to get its own Web Server and act like another ISP but not everybody wants to be in charge of setting-up and managing such a system for occasional or even day-to-day operations. If someone want to help on any of these threads, be kind to do it. Everybody's assistance is accepted ;-) -------------- /Gerard -----------------
> > Who else want to be > > a part time coordinator/and/or collaborator for this task and > > help start this App Framework project - nobody has to start or finish it > > alone but someone must be in charge for the first draft on > > which we'll work after ?? > > I can do this. But I can't spend a lot of time etc.
-------------- Gerard ----------------- I thank you for this implication Robert. Hope it will be as successful as you hope it will. Have a share with us as soon as you'll think it's OK for discussion or a try. -------------- /Gerard -----------------
>We have a trainee that will start to program some script for me in Rebol. But he will need > some time to ramp-up and doing framework development won't be his job in > the next month. He can test etc. But not more. >
-------------- Gerard ----------------- Looks like myself at this moment ... If you want to get more testing help, I have somewhat more free time this fall. -------------- /Gerard ----------------- Regards, Gerard P.S. I think you're on the good track when usin the ASSOCIATIVE MODEL and NAKED OBJECTS as the basis of your FRAMEWORK

 [7/13] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 30-Aug-2002 14:40


Hi Jason, You wrote: I can see you are fired up about something potent, modular, edu-oriented and rebolistic.
> Please can you try to explain in a couple of paragraphs your main idea. >
I hope nothing less than to do one of these 2 things : 1) permit collaboration with some existing eLearning platform(s) that is(are) currently supporting the use of basic collaborative educational REUSABLE components (like in the E-Slate project previously refered) for TRUE interactive sims - but the offered environment must also permit every teacher or talented student/researcher to submit his own educational components, ones that will be REBOL scriptable too - if done by knowledgeable power-users - or assembled from a templating system if done by end-users that don't want to get inside details (like me after some long years to learn and relearn a new language/system every 4 years or so - all inevitably ending ... at last it was the case for me ... in one or many successive BURN-OUTs and that's why I have so much spare time actually! I don't work yet - for some 4 years now. It is planned I will go back to work as a CS teacher in next January! - sorry for the inside view but it was too tempting ;-)))) 2) Create a completely new REBOL based COLLABORATIVE platform (eLearning Management should be permitted and well supported on it) that will respect the above vague requirements. This platform should permit the FULL UNRESTRICTED use of a to-be selected VIEWER (based on something like /View, /Link or on the current and/or future Web browsers that will survive the Browsers War Microsoft is about to finally win against its opponents - Netscape, OPERA, etc ...- another simple pov) able to support fully interactive and persistent multimedia work as done by the end-users. So a TRUE OPEN collaborative system is needed - able to exchange DATA and drive local and remote Apps. (May be of the MS-OFFICE type). Hope you understand better what I want to do but I have to admit it is longer than a couple paragraphs. Sorry! Gerard

 [8/13] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 30-Aug-2002 14:26


From: "Gerard Cote"
> In a similar way, I am also currently working - shen > free time is left - to find a way to fork a PHP or
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> and I want to show him it's easy and safe to do it - > even the way I plan to do it.
Hi, Gerard, There is a fairly straight forward way to do this as long as you have access to the cgi-bin directory and can set permissions. First, find out the ISP hardware and OS by putting the following single line in a file named phpinfo.php : <?php phpinfo() ?> Upload this to your ISP, then run the page: http://www.myserver.com/phpinfo.php The very top box will tell you the OS and hardware. Go to REBOL's download site, and download the appropriate /Core version (/View requires X-window, which may not be loaded on a web server). use: gzip -d corefilename then tar -xvf corefilename You may say, but I'm on Windows, how can this work? Trust me. You won't be running the resulting executable on your system. Find the executable (look for a likely filename or size). Upload this to the cgi-bin directory using binary mode. (You ONLY need this one file.) Please note that putting this executable directly in your cgi-bin is considered a security risk!!!! (It is supposed to be not directly accessible by the web, but we are just talking about an experiment. Right?) Next, you need to find the *actual path* to your cgi-bin directory. This too can be found in the phpinfo.php page. Look for document root, and add on any additional path to get you to the cgi-bin directory. Next you need to find which file extension(s) that your Apache will allow (frequently .cgi). Some ISP's will let you add to the list (like .r). Next, create your first REBOL cgi script, like the following. Note it is critical to change the path to exactly what you retrieved earlier. One of the /Core's had a bug that require "-cs" to be spelled out "--cgi -s", so I tend to use this just because. #!/isp/server/path/to/cgi-bin/rebol --cgi -s REBOL [] print "Content-Type: text/html^/" print <html> print "Hello, World!" print </html> Name the file, using your executable extension: hello.cgi and upload this file to the cgi-bin directory. You will need to change the file permissions to 755 (different ISP's allow this to be done differently; few seem to allow direct telnet access, which would allow the use of the CHMOD command). Now, on your browser, type: http://www.myserver.com/cgi-bin/hello.cgi and with good luck, you will see that magical message. Remember that the REBOL executable sitting directly on a web-accessible path is considered a security risk, so don't leave it there. Once you've convinced your ISP to add support and they pay RT, they will put the installation on a safe path, and then configure Apache to use an alias so that you can access the functionality. I would only develop scripts using a local installation, in order to avoid hung processes. But then you'll need to remember to change the first line #! path before uploading to the remote server. Hope this clears up any mystery. --Scott Jones

 [9/13] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 31-Aug-2002 15:07


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> You are completely right Robert, since I have some difficulty > to cope with my English,
Hi, no problem. Same for me ;-) and the danger is that good postings will be lost / not recognized.
> really longer than it could take in FRENCH
I can't resist ;-) as I learned French for 6 years in school and always wondered how much you can talk without saying to much ;-). IMO that's the cause that French is used in diplomacy.
> Nice , and I also suspect that Andrew is doing something like > this too, based on similar foundations.
Yep, I think so too. Our web-dialecting stuff developed into different directions with different goals. Andrew's goal is to be able to write HTML code in a nicly dialect, mine with make-doc-pro is just to be able to write some document and get a nice layout.
> I admit we will have to wait and see until someone whatever > it will be you or anybody else or a team - will have a > Useable toolkit to share with the rest of us and for getting > some advice to help enhance the product together.
That's something I can live with. At the moment there is no big business behind Rebol etc. so my goal is to release this stuff. Even if there might be a business around the ideas, I don't have a problem. At the moment we need to push Rebol and possible solutions into the market ASAP. Let others see how nice those solutions are, and than let's start making money out of it.
> As I already offered previously, I'll be glad to participate when > you'll decide it is ready to be done.
Fine! I will move it to a level, where most of you can see the direction and idea. I don't care to much if we change implementation things. I'm sure there will be a lot of possible improvements. But I would like to avoid (at least for my approach) to discuss the general direction. If some of you think: "Hey, IMO this looks like a good way, I move with them." This would be fine. And I hope that this group will achieve ciritical mass.
> Until then I continue > to study REBOL and other IDEs that should be of help in a > near future - even if it is solely for the purpose of > brainstorming before DESIGNING and HARD CODING a first too > bad solution .
That's perfect! All the links about lazysoftware, nakedobjects etc. are very good. Sometime I think that we have some real cool research guys here on the ML :-)) Saves me a lot of time...
> I agree with you too on this point. I often send up-front > many ideas without having a good estimate of all the work > that has to be done to get all of them functional.
That's ok. Your goal is brainstorming, research, looking around to get a feeling what others do etc.
> I appreciate to have some "realistic" guys like you and most of > the ML members that are able to SAY : NO MORE when it has to > be done ... even if this implies that I must wait for another > more or less time period. At least I'm not staying inactive > on my side either !!!
Perfect. Yes, I must addmit that I'm more on the "realistic" side but soley because I haven't found a way yet to extend a day to 48h. I try to do real things with the different ideas to get a feeling for the solution.
> But here my pov is simply a matter of not going too far in a > CUL-DE-SAC (dead end) while it could be done otherway before > if some other external party had just eyed over your shoulder > when it was time...
Yes, that's the danger. But I'm arrogant enough to say: It won't be to bad and the first release has the big blocks done, but not the details. There will be enough room for improvements.
> and the time is before the HARD CODING > begins. But I understand that with REBOL we can try and test > better and more affordably than with other Programming > Languages - generally speaking of.
Exactly. With using Rebol I'm sure we can alter the framework at light speed.
> Another field of interest is having an IDE develpped in REBOL > for REBOL to help accelerate and standardize some
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> in concept to the DIALECT one but could be used in a more > VISUAL form than now.
I see. I'm trying to create this "application franca" that can be used for 80% if all problmes as is and you only have to add the specialized 20%.
> I thank you for this implication Robert. Hope it will be as > successful as you hope it will. Have a share with us as soon > as you'll think it's OK for discussion or a try.
Ok, perhaps you are right. I have published my documentation I got so far. Quite a lot. It's a mix of english and german so be warned ;-)). Please have a look at the following link: http://www.robertmuench.de/rebol-framework.html Note: This page isn't reachable via my homepage yet. You have to use the direct link.
> Looks like myself at this moment ... If you want to get more > testing help, I have somewhat more free time this fall.
Be sure to get contacted ;-))
> P.S. I think you're on the good track when usin the > ASSOCIATIVE MODEL and NAKED OBJECTS as the basis of your FRAMEWORK
:-)) I hope so too. Robert -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Type: application/ms-tnef -- File: winmail.dat

 [10/13] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 31-Aug-2002 12:37


Robert, Gerard, et al I've been reading the posts with interest, but have little free time at the moment. Keep me in the loop if you do things privately please! I have so many projects going myself that it's hard to keep track of them, but these are all good things you're discussing. Like Gerard, I see huge potential for REBOL and IOS in education. I can see a fuzzy picture now, but details get clearer all the time. Very exciting to me. Also, Robert, I still have my toolbox of stuff sitting here (FSM, rmake, DIFF, *nix utils, rawk, etc.). I really need to get back to them and make them useful, but feel free to contact me about them if you think anything can be of use. --Gregg

 [11/13] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 31-Aug-2002 17:35


Hi Scott, You wrote:
> There is a fairly straight forward way to do this as long as you have access > to the cgi-bin directory and can set permissions.
<<quoted lines omitted: 9>>
> .cgi). Some ISP's will let you add to the list (like .r). > Next, create your first REBOL cgi script, like the following.
...
> Note it is > critical to change the path to exactly what you retrieved earlier. One of > the /Core's had a bug that require "-cs" to be spelled out "--cgi -s", so I > tend to use this just because. >
Thanks for all this information. I already downloaded and installed my REBOL Core on my ISP's LINUX HOST. But apart form the fact I can execute REBOL scripts via my SSH Telnet, nothing is functioning from the APACHE web server and CGI. I followed meticously your instructions, but nothing more than woth my first try, in march 2002. Th eonly thing I get is a stupid 500 error message from the server. All my permissions are OK but nevertheless I am not completely sure that my REBOL path is OK since there is so many VIRTUAL variables involved. But if I don't miss the m,ain point I must have done it correctly. However I'll try some other variations before giving-up completely with this avenue. In fact I suspect my ISP has bullet-proofed its APACHE config file for disabling other than PERL scripting engines from executing any file ending with a .cgi - even those that request explicitly such an engine from the first "#!" marked line (I don't remember the real name for this kind of procedure - is it not the SHEE-BANG line ?... ) But I will now try via another way to do it : a fork done with PERL (using EXEC) - my first tries didn't work at all - except for the part before the fork call to REBOL. I'll try more this week with other ways to do external command calls (with SYSTEM, etc...) and using other system commands too, like the more conventional "ls" or any other available in my restricted shell just to see if this works as advertised in the doc I referred to... I'll give you more details later if I succeed. In all cases I really appreciate the suggested detailed procedure you submitted. Regards, Gerard

 [12/13] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 31-Aug-2002 17:56


Hi Gregg, You wrote:
> I've been reading the posts with interest, but have little free time at the > moment. Keep me in the loop if you do things privately please! I have so > many projects going myself that it's hard to keep track of them, but these > are all good things you're discussing. >
Glad to hear from you about this project... Really think it should be done with everyone that wants to be implied - even if it is part time only - and I know there are lots of ppl in this situation, since I normally am myself in it.
> Like Gerard, I see huge potential for REBOL and IOS in education. I can see > a fuzzy picture now, but details get clearer all the time. Very exciting to > me.
I may later jot some further concepts about the way I envision it all but I wouild also like to see what is your vision in this field of interest. Can we exchange on it a bit more - when you'll find some SMALL period of time to do it ?
> Also, Robert, I still have my toolbox of stuff sitting here (FSM, rmake, > DIFF, *nix utils, rawk, etc.). I really need to get back to them and make > them useful, but feel free to contact me about them if you think anything > can be of use. >
I am also interested in your toolbox since I teached UNIX SHELL usage for about 2 years in the mid-80s and I also developed some apps using the available tools and some SHELL scripting by the end of the 80s - then I was working for my own small business - I don't do work on it anymore for the moment - only search for an ultimate tool - REBOL may be is the answer - but for the moment I miss some more training and maybe some more openness from the REBOL engine - as Petr described it in the Link's CONFERENCE some time ago ... In fact I also thought to develop my own DISK, FILE and FOLDER toolset when I'll be more knowledgeable about REBOL, just to ease and minimize the time to do these boring repetitive tasks related to them ... Regards, Gerard

 [13/13] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 1-Sep-2002 11:30


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
> get back to them and make them useful, but feel free to > contact me about them if you think anything can be of use.
Thanks, I'm coming back to you as soon as I can intergrate FSM stuff etc. First I need to get the basics done. Robert

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