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Flames, hype, offended vanity

 [1/11] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 22-Feb-2002 13:43


Hello all and Cyphre, OK. This is REBOL list. I know it but I can't help myself. I just thought that something good can be started but it's same again and again. I didn't know you were working on something like that with Allen K. That idea came to me so I wrote mail to list. That was all. Night after when you came home we were talking about that and I do not remember your words exactly but we were talking about some sort of cooperation. Please, Cyphre, read my mail again - there is written is/will be partially helping with some technical stuff . Wern't you/aren't you/won't you be? Or do you think that "technical stuff" means "stealing ideas" ? If you feel like victim - and I seem like criminal - why didn't you told it directly to me? Is it necessary to discuss this on mailing list? If Allen told you something bad - get him in contact with me I hope I can explain it. It's not your fault - but I still do not know why wrote that mail. Who knows you and Allen K. were working on something simmilar? You, Allen. K and who else? Was it published somewhere? I do not know - so if it's between you, Allen K. and me why do you feel it is SO IMPORTANT to discuss this on mailing list? I never wanted to uncover myself. As I wrote, it can be driven by a script. I just wanted to gain some good demos - that's good for everyone because we can learn something from other's work. And I like eye-candies too. I won't have any profit and I must invest my time (and some money for Internet connection). I though it can be done only for fun. But what reactions came? Uncover yourself! Who are you?! or I'm victim! My name is damned forever! And - no demos. O.K. I'm not giving up (even when I think that no demos will be sent to me) but I've learn something. Some people behave little bit paranoic - they're seeking some hidden things where nothing's hidden. The world's still turning in the same direction - it's good to remember. Bye, reBolek (that bad guy who's stealing ideas) P.S.: Richarde, jestli ches s Allenem delat nejakou soutez, tak ju klidne udelejte, kdyz jich bude treba deset, tim lip. Ale skutecne sem rekl neco tak nepresnyho, zavadejiciho, lzivyho, ze to musis ventilovat na listu a nemuzes mne to rict doma osobne? Musim rict ze sem to od tebe fakt necekal a prijde me to jako podpasovka. Pokud ti slo o to, zabit tu soutez, tak mam pocit, ze se ti to timhle mailem podarilo. Vis, ze to nedelam kvuli nehynouci slave pro sebe a sve pokoleni, tak ze mne nemusis delat tady na listu krivaka, ale muzeme to snad vyresit nejak rozumneji. BB **** Hello Rebolek, I must say that I *didn't promise* you any help or technical support with your competition. Some time ago I planned to participate on simmilar idea with Allen Kamp and now it looks like I stole him the idea and collaborate with you. But this is simply *not true*. It looks like you and Allen came with the simmilar idea at almost the same time and now I feel like a victim of this random accident. Therefore, it will be better to dissociate from this competition - neither participate nor compete. regards, Cyphre ---- Original Message ----- From: "REBOL/DEMOn" <[reboldemo--seznam--cz]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:38 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL/Demo 2002 Competition ...my name is Boleslav Brezovsky aka reBolek. The whole thing is my idea and I have several reasons for this. Richard Smolak (Cyphre) is/will be partially helping me with some technical stuff. I think that my demos cannot be part of competition but Cyphre is not counting voices and so I think his demos CAN be part of it. Of course I'll write something but just as bonus. We are in no way involved with REBOL Technologies but if they want to support us they're welcome (We haven't contacted them yet as no demos arrived still). -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes. --- P=F8=EDchoz=ED zpr=E1va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.231 / Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 112 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: 12.2.2001 --- Odchoz=ED zpr=E1va neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolov=E1no antivirov=FDm syst=E9mem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.231 / Virov=E1 b=E1ze: 112 - datum vyd=E1n=ED: 12.2.2001

 [2/11] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 22-Feb-2002 18:09


Hi Rebolek, Well, you probably didn't understand my response or maybe my english is too bad. I didn't (want) write nothing against you, your ideas, the competition itself... I just wanted to point out that I won't be participated on the compo because it would seem like *I* am stealing the idea of Allen's compo and do it with you instead of with Allen. That's all ;-) I hope there will be plenty of demos in the near future from people around the list so my presence in this event is unimportant. I'm sorry, if my response sounded like flame to you. DEMO or DIE! Cyphre ----- Original Message ----- From: "X" <[rebolek--seznam--cz]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:43 PM Subject: [REBOL] Flames, hype, offended vanity Hello all and Cyphre, OK. This is REBOL list. I know it but I can't help myself. I just thought that something good can be started but it's same again and again. I didn't know you were working on something like that with Allen K. That idea came to me so I wrote mail to list. That was all. Night after when you came home we were talking about that and I do not remember your words exactly but we were talking about some sort of cooperation. Please, Cyphre, read my mail again - there is written is/will be partially helping with some technical stuff . Wern't you/aren't you/won't you be? Or do you think that "technical stuff" means "stealing ideas" ? If you feel like victim - and I seem like criminal - why didn't you told it directly to me? Is it necessary to discuss this on mailing list? If Allen told you something bad - get him in contact with me I hope I can explain it. It's not your fault - but I still do not know why wrote that mail. Who knows you and Allen K. were working on something simmilar? You, Allen. K and who else? Was it published somewhere? I do not know - so if it's between you, Allen K. and me why do you feel it is SO IMPORTANT to discuss this on mailing list? I never wanted to uncover myself. As I wrote, it can be driven by a script. I just wanted to gain some good demos - that's good for everyone because we can learn something from other's work. And I like eye-candies too. I won't have any profit and I must invest my time (and some money for Internet connection). I though it can be done only for fun. But what reactions came? Uncover yourself! Who are you?! or I'm victim! My name is damned forever! And - no demos. O.K. I'm not giving up (even when I think that no demos will be sent to me) but I've learn something. Some people behave little bit paranoic - they're seeking some hidden things where nothing's hidden. The world's still turning in the same direction - it's good to remember. Bye, reBolek (that bad guy who's stealing ideas) P.S.: Richarde, jestli ches s Allenem delat nejakou soutez, tak ju klidne udelejte, kdyz jich bude treba deset, tim lip. Ale skutecne sem rekl neco tak nepresnyho, zavadejiciho, lzivyho, ze to musis ventilovat na listu a nemuzes mne to rict doma osobne? Musim rict ze sem to od tebe fakt necekal a prijde me to jako podpasovka. Pokud ti slo o to, zabit tu soutez, tak mam pocit, ze se ti to timhle mailem podarilo. Vis, ze to nedelam kvuli nehynouci slave pro sebe a sve pokoleni, tak ze mne nemusis delat tady na listu krivaka, ale muzeme to snad vyresit nejak rozumneji. BB **** Hello Rebolek, I must say that I *didn't promise* you any help or technical support with your competition. Some time ago I planned to participate on simmilar idea with Allen Kamp and now it looks like I stole him the idea and collaborate with you. But this is simply *not true*. It looks like you and Allen came with the simmilar idea at almost the same time and now I feel like a victim of this random accident. Therefore, it will be better to dissociate from this competition - neither participate nor compete. regards, Cyphre ---- Original Message ----- From: "REBOL/DEMOn" <[reboldemo--seznam--cz]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 9:38 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL/Demo 2002 Competition ...my name is Boleslav Brezovsky aka reBolek. The whole thing is my idea and I have several reasons for this. Richard Smolak (Cyphre) is/will be partially helping me with some technical stuff. I think that my demos cannot be part of competition but Cyphre is not counting voices and so I think his demos CAN be part of it. Of course I'll write something but just as bonus. We are in no way involved with REBOL Technologies but if they want to support us they're welcome (We haven't contacted them yet as no demos arrived still). -- To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email to [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the subject, without the quotes. --- Příchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry.

 [3/11] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 22-Feb-2002 10:57


Rebolek, Cyphre, et al I hope this all just turns out to be a simple misunderstanding. If we're all doing things to support the REBOL community, we all have the same goal. Hopefully Cyphre just wanted to make it clear to Allen that he was being up front about everything, but it is probably best if you guys take the thread off-line from this point. I, for one, didn't suspect that anything underhanded was going on when I asked for more details about the demo contest. I just wanted to know if existing (i.e. previously released) scripts could be submitted, who we could thank for organizing things, etc. Sometimes, now, companies will sponsor contests and bury in the details of the entry form that you agree to assign all rights to your submissions to that company, or some such thing. We all need to be careful to watch out for stuff like that. I'd like to submit something, but I'm terribly busy at the moment and I'd like to make sure what I submit has been cleaned up enough that it won't embarass me. We have until March 15, right? :-) --Gregg

 [4/11] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 22-Feb-2002 11:50


Hi oh dear!.. I know nothing about what is really going on offlist, or what the'backstory' is here, but clearly any initiatives to encourage Rebol development are a good idea, yet something has gone wrong here. The visible Rebol community is still very small, and all those with the most skill appear to very busy already building "real-world demos" [ie applications, toolkits, etc]. Look at this mailing list and ALL the existing REBOl sites. My impressionis that there is some serious work being done, but with little visible change recently in sites or presentation efforts. This includes RT own site. This is hard fact of REBOL's condition at the moment, and presumably part of your motivation. I interpret this lack of 'action' as not decay/death, but like trees/plants in this season when they are building up energy to burst into spring greenery. So I would not be surprised if there is very little response at this point in time to any REBOL/Demo project, whoever puts their name on it. It strikes me that your timing is interesting but perhaps a little cruel. Hopefully there are some ways to heal wounds and channel your effort. My suggestions: 1. Don't call it a "competition" We are all already competing against the odds of time, money, documentation, skill, M$.NET etc. Instead just set up a great site focused on fostering the kind of demos you do not find elsewhere in REBOL-topia. If there is another similar initiative either merge them or clarify the differences. I don't think deadline wor in REBOL community well. Just keep it open.. keep it going 2. Ask What would really help people [busy people and newbies] to create adn contribute to cool REBOL/Demos? Examples, ideas, documentation, motivation??? Lack of documentation for /View is a major obstable for everyone. The knowledge is improving thanks to this list but I doubt anyone is satisfied. Any ideas? 3. Why REBOL? What's it really good for..? With respect to game/graphic demos I have a very hard time understanding why anyone would use REBOL/View for any gaming or graphics intensive applications. imho, it is just to damn !@#$ primitive even though it has some cool features and the language itself is great. Reminds me of late 20th century Amiga. Flash5/6 seem like the obvious choice right now. Please tell me I am wrong and why. 4. Show us something Please! The url you posted http://www.sweb.cz/reboldemo returns "404 Stránka nenalezena" . What's up? 5. Prepare a Review I have seen a few very nice things on Rbolsites, but hard to find them again. Perhaps you can provide us a fresh guide to what is already 'cool' in your terms and sugest where to go. Make a REBOL/Demo map ..including new lands to discover ~~~~~ So you do net get wrong impression, I am happily addicted to REBOLand having much fun learning it. I should also say that I recently started working on a new group/net art project which uses rebol/vanilla/rugby/html/flash. The main reason for choosing REBOL is sweet simplicity and cross-platform network features. View is only good for simplest things-basic user interface. The rest is all background REBOL combined with other tools when it needs them [Python/PIL, ImageMagick probably]. I am hoping to use Oldes wonderful %make-swf.r. combnied with extensions to Vanilla for special image and flash handling. A real need I have right now is for an advanced image browsing tool on client desktop which can prepare thumbnail image conversions, generate and sotre lists and sequences, add metadata and then upload via FTP [preferably SSH2 file transfer] into Vanilla site where it creates snips automatically. All quite doable. The pieces are everywhere. But making a smooth integrated tool in REBOL/View is still frustrating [resizing smoothly is a bitch, and no binary clipboard copying yet :-((]. I am hope these problems will be solved soon, but limiting obstacle for many applications now. ~~~~~ best wishes ./Jason

 [5/11] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 22-Feb-2002 20:18


> Rebolek, Cyphre, et al > > I hope this all just turns out to be a simple misunderstanding. If we're all > doing things to support the REBOL community, we all have the same goal. > Hopefully Cyphre just wanted to make it clear to Allen that he was being up > front about everything, but it is probably best if you guys take the thread > off-line from this point. >
My last word to this thread: I believe Cyphre just wanted to make it clear but I do not understand why he thought it's great idea to discuss that on this list (where no one said a word against him), especially when he's got great oportunity to talk to me directly. If it's just misunderstanding between me and him it's got no place on this list.
> I, for one, didn't suspect that anything underhanded was going on when I > asked for more details about the demo contest. I just wanted to know if
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> all rights to your submissions to that company, or some such thing. We all > need to be careful to watch out for stuff like that.
Well, organizing... I thought it's just sending some mails and then one reb page... I really didn't know WHAT kind of mails I must send :) And all the rights are still yours (*). No entry form. But - it's not hard to read REBOL code. So if SOMEONE ELSE (*) will use your ideas... (but that's one of the reasons - to show people some nice ways to do things easier). Previously released scripts? No, but if you make 'special edition' then yes. :-) Easy? (*)-- Time to tell the truth: M$ is terribly out of ideas so they want to steal some from the greatest source on Earth :-) No, I'm joking :-) (No, I'm not joking - M$ is REALLY terribly out of ideas and this list is REALLY greatest source on Earth :-) And - no sponsors (yet). But I may buy a bottle of some good Moravian wine for you :)
> I'd like to submit something, but I'm terribly busy at the moment and I'd > like to make sure what I submit has been cleaned up enough that it won't > embarass me. We have until March 15, right? :-) >
Right :-) REBOL/DEMO Team (all 1 member :-)

 [6/11] from: al:bri:xtra at: 23-Feb-2002 9:54


Jason wrote:
> Lack of documentation for /View is a major obstable for everyone. The
knowledge is improving thanks to this list but I doubt anyone is satisfied. Any ideas? This area is a real pain. It would be really great for someone with plenty of spare time to collect the snippets of information from this list and assemble them into a coherent set of documentation for Rebol/View, along with a page about common "Gotchas" that Rebol has, like series inside functions, the problem with 'to in 'parse, and so on. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/

 [7/11] from: al:bri:xtra at: 23-Feb-2002 9:51


Jason wrote:
> 5. Prepare a Review > I have seen a few very nice things on Rbolsites, but hard to find them
again. Perhaps you can provide us a fresh guide to what is already 'cool' in your terms and sugest where to go. Make a REBOL/Demo map ..including new lands to discover I second this. The rebol web needs a editor/explorer who can go in there and find the good things and bad things and show them to the world. Perhaps a automatically created web page that provides links to these places? With a small Reb site that links to these places? And a place for new entries to the Reb Web to be shown? Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://valley.150m.com/

 [8/11] from: tbrownell:shaw:ca at: 22-Feb-2002 12:13


Maybe "pulling out of the contest" is Eastern European human nature? TB PS "It's a joke. Lighten up."

 [9/11] from: ammonjohnson::yahoo at: 23-Feb-2002 17:41


I have seriously considering doing a search engine for the WWR, but haven't done it yet, maybe I will be able to provide something as a demo? (Time permiting) Enjoy!! Ammon

 [10/11] from: carl:cybercraft at: 24-Feb-2002 14:07


On 24-Feb-02, Ammon Johnson wrote:
> I have seriously considering doing a search engine for the WWR, but > haven't done it yet, maybe I will be able to provide something as a > demo? (Time permiting)
Theres this one and it's good... http://proton.cl-ki.uni-osnabrueck.de/REBOL/rebsearch.r I know it's good, as I've just used it to find out where it comes from, I only having the URL. (: It's from the FX5 site. -- Carl Read

 [11/11] from: ammonjohnson::yahoo at: 25-Feb-2002 16:01


Thanks!! Ammon

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