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[ALLY] REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha)

 [1/74] from: carl:rebol at: 4-Jun-2001 15:55


This plugin allows you to run REBOL scripts by simply clicking on Web links. It does not take over the browser or its window, but will run the script and open a REBOL window if that is part of the script. The plugin includes a copy of REBOL/View, which will be installed if you do not already have View. This is an alpha test. We have done limited testing of it for Windows IE and Netscape. If you want to try it as an Alpha test, browse this link: http://www.reboltech.com/plugins.html This test is for Windows only... at this time. Many thanks to both Sterling and Jeff for the IE and Netscape code gymnastics to get this running. -Carl

 [2/74] from: philb:upnaway at: 5-Jun-2001 7:34


Hi Carl, Works here on Win 98 SR2. When clicking on a Rebol Link is it supposed to display a blank page? Cheers Phil -- Orgiional Message -- This plugin allows you to run REBOL scripts by simply clicking on Web links. It does not take over the browser or its window, but will run the script and open a REBOL window if that is part of the script. The plugin includes a copy of REBOL/View, which will be installed if you do not already have View. This is an alpha test. We have done limited testing of it for Windows IE and Netscape. If you want to try it as an Alpha test, browse this link: http://www.reboltech.com/plugins.html This test is for Windows only... at this time. Many thanks to both Sterling and Jeff for the IE and Netscape code gymnastics to get this running. -Carl

 [3/74] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 4-Jun-2001 18:37


From: "Carl Sassenrath"
> This plugin allows you to run REBOL scripts by simply > clicking on Web links. It does not take over the browser
<<quoted lines omitted: 9>>
> Many thanks to both Sterling and Jeff for the IE and > Netscape code gymnastics to get this running.
Working great on Win98 and IE5.5, at least so far. I think that this will be a very positive step toward the advancement of REBOL in the general community. Way to go, RT! --Scott Jones

 [4/74] from: robert:lancaster:opennw at: 5-Jun-2001 11:46


Using Win 2K. REBOL windows open and run okay... however IE browser window fails to refresh when REBOl window is dragged around. Lots of rebol windows drawn into background.... Browser seems to hang. ( Buit who really cares about the browser once rebols' launched? ;> ) Haven't rebooted machine yet.

 [5/74] from: brett:codeconscious at: 5-Jun-2001 9:48


----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [6/74] from: brett:codeconscious at: 5-Jun-2001 9:54


Sorry about the empty repsonse email. About the plugin - Initially I had prob, but that was due to the fact I had some old version floating around. The plugin works. IE 5.5 WinNT4.0 Just a question. The plugin page mentions that if the .r file has a mime type of text/x-rebol then the plugin will activate, however the browser is left with a blank page and the address in the location field. Is there anything that can be done so that I has a compelling content developer ;) can not have the blank page - either by having a redirect to another html page or by having the browser stop at the page with the links? Brett. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [7/74] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 5-Jun-2001 12:08


> > This is an alpha test. We have done limited testing > > of it for Windows IE and Netscape. If you want to try > it
Pretty cool. Works on NT4 sp6, and IE5.5. I can bookmark local scripts with my web browser now :-) -- Graham Chiu

 [8/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 4-Jun-2001 17:13


We noticed that asme behavior and it is annoying and lame. We wanted to get the thing out there for you folks to try it out first though. We're working on that blank page deal in the meantime... maybe there's a way to not have the browser move to a page at all and just stay where it is. We might just open source the plugin code... it's really simple... so that you guys out there can tweak it out to do the right thing. At the moment though the project is a splattering of code files, includes, and whatnot such that it's not publishable at all. In the meantime, enjoy the plugin and let us know of any problems. Sterling

 [9/74] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 4-Jun-2001 17:18


It works for IE on my Win98 system, but Netscape just prints garbly gunk when I click the "get plugin for Netscape" link. If I download the link and execute it, nothing happens. .jar runs "C:\Program Files\JavaSoft\JRE\1.3\bin\javaw.exe -jar" on my system. --Ryan Carl Sassenrath wrote:
> This plugin allows you to run REBOL scripts by simply > clicking on Web links. It does not take over the browser
<<quoted lines omitted: 14>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

 [10/74] from: ptretter:charter at: 4-Jun-2001 19:24


Works fine on my win98 box but on Win2k it hangs the browser. Overall, I'm very pleased anyway. Paul Tretter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [11/74] from: carl:rebol at: 4-Jun-2001 17:30


Thanks. We see the blank page too. We're not sure what causes that. Anyone know? -Carl At 6/5/01 07:34 AM +0800, you wrote:

 [12/74] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 5-Jun-2001 12:45


On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:30:18 -0700 Carl Sassenrath <[carl--rebol--com]> wrote:
> We see the blank page too. We're not sure what causes > that. > Anyone know?
I see the blank page too. But the script is not returning any HTML so that's what one would expect? If I bookmark a local rebol application, it doesn't change the web page, and just starts up the Reblet. And the icon on the links bar is a Rebol icon. -- Graham Chiu

 [13/74] from: gavin:mckenzie:sympatico:ca at: 4-Jun-2001 21:21


Man...this is *just* what I needed...man oh man thank you. Note that I'm not experiencing any browser window refresh or crashes on my Win2K box. Also note however that I am running the recently released Service Pack 2 of Win2K with IE 5.5. Gavin.

 [14/74] from: ljurado:bariloche:ar at: 4-Jun-2001 22:44


Same problem on Win98 and IE 5.0 (Pressing Back and forward buttons and the browser is alive again)

 [15/74] from: ptretter:charter at: 4-Jun-2001 21:11


Glad you posted. I updated my IE5 with the latest service pack the lockup is gone however the blank page still appears but that seems to be universal at this point. So if anyone else using win2k is having problems update your browsers with the latest service pack. Paul Tretter

 [16/74] from: larry:ecotope at: 4-Jun-2001 19:25


Hi Carl I tried the plug-in web page. The plug-in was downloaded into the IE plug-in dir and registered in the registry. After rebooting Win98 (version 4.10 build 1998), the plug-in works as follows using IE 5 (version 5.00.3314.2101) SP2: 1) When I go with the browser to a .r file on your website or on my own rebsite, View runs the script including downloads called for in the script using load-thru/binary. 2) There is no blank screen, the View script just pops up over (or partially over) the browser window, but if I close the View script window, the browser window does not refresh. Using the back button on the browser restores the original browser window. The browser seems hung until I use the back button. 3) If I close the browser window just after the script window comes up, everything works in the same fashion as if the script had been executed by double-clicking locally. 4) If I move the script window after it pops up it leaves a trail of script window images on the browser window, this may be a problem with the video driver on my machine. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: [REBOL] REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) This plugin allows you to run REBOL scripts by simply clicking on Web links. It does not take over the browser or its window, but will run the script and open a REBOL window if that is part of the script. The plugin includes a copy of REBOL/View, which will be installed if you do not already have View. This is an alpha test. We have done limited testing of it for Windows IE and Netscape. If you want to try it as an Alpha test, browse this link: http://www.reboltech.com/plugins.html This test is for Windows only... at this time. Many thanks to both Sterling and Jeff for the IE and Netscape code gymnastics to get this running. -Carl

 [17/74] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 5-Jun-2001 14:41


> This plugin allows you to run REBOL scripts by simply > clicking on Web links. It does not take over the browser > or its window, but will run the script and open a REBOL > window if that is part of the script. > > The plugin includes a copy of REBOL/View, which will be > installed if you do not already have View.
And the mind boggles over which licensing model is going to be applied :-) -- Graham Chiu

 [18/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 4-Jun-2001 20:09


So nothing happens if you download hte jar file and then drag it onto a netscape window? What version of netscape? Sterling

 [19/74] from: depotcity:telus at: 4-Jun-2001 21:27


The plugin works fine from here (win2k) but only for scripts on the rebol site, personal scripts don't work. TBrownell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [20/74] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 5-Jun-2001 6:49


Hi Larry, nice analyzis, but old song, isn't it? :-) I think similar (or just the same?) problems were described some months ago in Express conference. If there is problem with "blank" screen, then let's tech Rebol how to draw inside of browser too :-) Maybe Netscape and IE are just scared of Rebol? :-) -pekr-

 [21/74] from: rondon:andrade:uol at: 5-Jun-2001 2:57


Great Job!! I really like the plugin.!! But I'd like to know just to make sure. Does it disable the 'View Source' function of the browser ? Thanks. Rondon

 [22/74] from: moeller_thorsten:gmx at: 5-Jun-2001 9:04


Hi Carl and Team, great Job. That's what we need to make things happen. Works fine on Win2K with IE 6.0 BETA. Thorsten

 [23/74] from: carl:rebol at: 5-Jun-2001 9:35


I suspected that. Just changed the MIME type on the server. Give it a try again and let us know the result.

 [24/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 5-Jun-2001 9:47


That sounds like a likely theory. We'll chack and see if we can do anything about the MIME type for the file. Sterling

 [25/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 5-Jun-2001 9:48


Well, there isn't really any source to view since the script will come up in it's own window. Sterling

 [26/74] from: steve:shireman:semaxwireless at: 5-Jun-2001 12:08


Just configuring my PC after a lost harddrive, and sending email for the first time. I tried a couple Rebol scripts to download the .jar for Netscape but they were determined corrupted by the Java Bean counter in Netscape. (I tried both read -- ~350k and read/binary --gave file twice as large ~718k)
>>save %/c/enroute/rebol-ns-plugin.jar read/binary http://www.reboltech.com/plugins/rebol-ns-plugin.jar
;is there some other 'read refinement which would have read around the MIME problem? Steve Shireman So I ended up downloading Internet Evilspoiler and installed and it worked as mentioned in the list earlier.

 [27/74] from: philb:upnaway at: 6-Jun-2001 1:31


Hi Graham, If I bookmark my page in IE5.5 on W98 SR2 when I click on the bookmark I go into my default editor for .r files? (This is not my default when clicking on a .r file in Windows Explorer) How do I get it to run my application with View? Cheers Phil On Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:30:18 -0700 Carl Sassenrath <[carl--rebol--com]> wrote:
> We see the blank page too. We're not sure what causes > that. > Anyone know?
I see the blank page too. But the script is not returning any HTML so that's what one would expect? If I bookmark a local rebol application, it doesn't change the web page, and just starts up the Reblet. And the icon on the links bar is a Rebol icon. -- Graham Chiu

 [28/74] from: steve:shireman:semaxwireless at: 5-Jun-2001 12:49


Works Wonderfully. Reinstalled it from the url in my previous email. When I had installed using IE download before, the plug-in install wasn't as complete. The "killer app" favorite of mine from the examples is the "Quick Email" I haven't sent an email that easily/quickly/beautifully from a web page before, although I can see the Rebol behind the curtain... Steve Shireman Carl Sassenrath wrote:

 [29/74] from: michal:kracik at: 5-Jun-2001 21:35


Hi Carl, the plugin now installs without problems in Netscape 4.76. Thanks! -- Michal Kracik Carl Sassenrath wrote:

 [30/74] from: ptretter:charter at: 5-Jun-2001 15:02


Not sure of the spec for creating plugins but if you can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. I would make a go at it. I look for some information before on this but couldnt find any. Paul Tretter

 [31/74] from: ronald:gruss:libertysurf at: 5-Jun-2001 22:40


Hi Carl, Great job, it works fine under W98 IE 5.5 Only RIM bugs and gives me this message on console : ** Script Error: Word scroll-para is protected, cannot modify ** Where: do-boot ** Near: scroll-para: func [tf sf /local tmp] [ if none? tf/para [exit] tmp: min 0x0 tf/size - (size-text tf) either sf/size/x > sf/size/y [tf/para/scroll/x: sf/data * first tmp] [ tf/para/scroll/y: sf/data * second tmp] show tf ] send-msg:
>>
But after testing RIM again from the desktop, I got the same message . Is there a bug in RIM ? that I tested a couple of days before without any problem. The plugin will give a new dimension to Rebol !!! I was waiting for it . Thanks very much ! Ronald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [32/74] from: ronald:gruss:libertysurf at: 5-Jun-2001 23:00


Sorry for last message, I got the answer by opening my eyes...;-))) I had added 'system-protect in my user.r and when commented, RIM works very fine. Sorry for the thread... Ronald

 [33/74] from: michal:kracik at: 5-Jun-2001 11:41


Hi, I got the same problem: Iexplore 5.5 in Win2000 SP2 works, Netscape 4.76 does not install the plugin but displays garbage in browser window. However, I downloaded the jar file with iexplore, saved it to disk and dragged it to Netscape window, and installation program in Java installed the REBOL plugin. I believe this is caused by incorrect MIME type for the jar file at http://www.reboltech.com/plugins/rebol-ns-plugin.jar, it has MIME type text/plain instead of application/java-archive. -- Michal Kracik Ryan Cole wrote:

 [34/74] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 5-Jun-2001 12:00


Hello all same problem on Win98+IE Question for RT: How much difficult would be "redirect" the graphical /View output into browser's window (like Flash etc.)? I really want running "reblets" on my homepage ;-) keep the great work, Cyphre ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Sassenrath <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [35/74] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 5-Jun-2001 12:46


Hi Michal, I just wondered what should I do to unpack archive :-) I have even some .jar archiver but it said rebol-ns-plugin.jar is not an valid archvie file. Your solution works, thanks - maybe RT could correct this small problem ... However - and probably question more towards RT - what happens to .jar content? I mean - how is Rebol installed? And where? I can see only one rebol related .dll file in Netscape's 'plugins directory. It seems to be exactly the same as you provided earlier with /Link. Thanks a lot, -pekr- Michal Kracik wrote:

 [36/74] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 6-Jun-2001 10:12


On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 1:31:30 +0800 [philb--upnaway--com] wrote:
> If I bookmark my page in IE5.5 on W98 SR2 when I click on > the bookmark I go into my default editor for .r files? > (This is not my default when clicking on a .r file in > Windows Explorer) > > How do I get it to run my application with View?
I would guess that the default association for .r files in your system somehow is associated with the editor, and you need to change that to Rebol/view. -- Graham Chiu

 [37/74] from: carl:cybercraft at: 6-Jun-2001 12:46


Someone's said to me: "might well work with opera as opera uses netscape plugins." Does anyone know if it does or it doesn't? -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

 [38/74] from: allen:aussieweb:au at: 6-Jun-2001 11:06


An alternative to the blank page, use an embedded link in a html page. example, http://www.rebolforces.com/mines.html Allen K ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]>

 [39/74] from: brett:codeconscious at: 6-Jun-2001 11:44


Excellent Allen! I think you've just released the flood gates :) Brett.

 [40/74] from: larry:ecotope at: 5-Jun-2001 18:49


HI Allen That technique seems to work really well. On my box it seems to avoid the the need to hit the back button in order to get the browser alive again. Also avoids the video corruption I saw when moving the REBOL script window around over the browser window. Cheers -Larry

 [41/74] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 6-Jun-2001 14:42


> http://www.rebolforces.com/mines.html >
Hi Allen, What's supposed to happen? I viewed this page under IE under ME, 98, and NT - and just saw your source code. The game didn't pop up. -- Graham Chiu

 [42/74] from: arolls:bigpond:au at: 6-Jun-2001 13:08


The game itself should popup in a new window. Anton.

 [43/74] from: allen:aussieweb:au at: 6-Jun-2001 13:36


Graham, The game should pop up in a new window, this worked for me with win98 and IE5.5, NS6.0 and Opera 5.0 If it doesn't work for you then it would seem that the plugin is not correctly registered for the mime-type: text/x-rebol on your system or perhaps there is another explanation.. Cheers, Allen K

 [44/74] from: ljurado:bariloche:ar at: 6-Jun-2001 1:00


Yessss, the same solution was OK for me ( win 98 & IE 5.0) Larry : we have the sames problems & solutions, Win98 & IE5.0 related ? Hummm .. Robert Lancaster too , but on Win2K and without IE versio info.

 [45/74] from: carl:rebol at: 6-Jun-2001 9:05


That's the advantage of going the plug-in route to doing this. But, Sterling and I have been discussing this. If instead of installing a plugin, we just made an application association to the MIME type, we would not leave the blank page. But, that would break EMBED tags. Putting it another way: it's probably not a good idea to be both an app assoc and a plug-in. The app assoc allows links to .r files to launch REBOL. The plug-in allows pages that contain EMBED with REBOL to launch. Apparently, the Netscape wizards never imagined that someone would try to do both. Their API does not address the issue, which could be solved by simply allowing our plug-in to NOT cause the page forward operation... or to allow it to tell the browser to immediately go back a page. Otherwise you have this blank page problem. But, we don't see that anywhere in the API docs (on Netscape site). We're open to ideas. We are experts in REBOL, not in browser internals. This has been problematic. We need to be careful not to set up a legacy issue for REBOL. If we do this wrong, it could come back to bite us later when we want REBOL to display its content directly within the browser window. Any browser experts out there? -Carl

 [46/74] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 6-Jun-2001 18:52


----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 6:05 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha)
> That's the advantage of going the plug-in route to doing this. > But, Sterling and I have been discussing this. If instead of
<<quoted lines omitted: 17>>
> it could come back to bite us later when we want REBOL to display > its content directly within the browser window.
HA! That's it :-) Keep on rocking! -pekr-

 [47/74] from: mbicanic:open:hr at: 6-Jun-2001 19:09


A> The game itself should popup in a new window. A> Anton. I try it on work, and it do that - dclick open new REBOL window (W98/NS4.75 I think). Parallel with this in browser window is shown source code, and sometimes it is blank page. BTW does plugin do something else, or just start /view with script as argument when you click .r file ? (sorry, I know almost nothing about Windows) mb A>> What's supposed to happen? I viewed this page under IE A>> under ME, 98, and NT - and just saw your source code. The A>> game didn't pop up. A>> A>> -- A>> Graham Chiu

 [48/74] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 6-Jun-2001 13:06


Comments interspersed... From: "Carl Sassenrath"
> That's the advantage of going the plug-in route to doing this. > But, Sterling and I have been discussing this. If instead of
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> to .r files to launch REBOL. The plug-in allows pages that > contain EMBED with REBOL to launch.
Somehow the creators of the TclTk plugin found what appears to be a middle ground. One difference is that the TclTk does embed the applet window within the browser window. I offer the follwoing information as food for thought, and as a means for comparison. (Great time to learn from their mistakes.) Here are some examples of how the code is referred to in the Tclet series. The first example demonstrates in-lined code that runs embedded in the browser window. <embed type="application/x-tcl" script=' button .b -text "Click Me!" -command changeBg place .b -relx .5 -rely .5 -anchor c proc changeBg {} {. configure -bg [format #%03x [expr int(rand()*(1<<12))]]} ' width=120 height=80> The following example is also embedded, but the source is pulled from a file. <embed type="application/x-tcl" src="console.tcl" width=400 height=400> Having a link to code causes the Tclet to run in the whole browser. The downside is that if the browser window is not large enough, the Tclet face is clipped, and resizing the browser window does not redraw the face. The only way to fix the problem is to enlarge the window and refresh. (Of course, the window could be resized appropriately in the html.) <a href="http://dev.scriptics.com/software/plugin/tktetris.tcl" target="tcl-app-example"> TkTetris</html> However, for files stored locally on my Win98 box, the .tcl extension is properly recognized and run in the Tcl interpretor. My conclusion is that there may be a way to have your cake and eat it too. I know little about plug-ins, but from a usability perspective, Tcl's implementation seems to work as I would expect it to work.
> Apparently, the Netscape wizards never imagined that someone > would try to do both. Their API does not address the issue,
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> have this blank page problem. But, we don't see that anywhere > in the API docs (on Netscape site).
When I looked last night, I didn't see it either.
> We're open to ideas. We are experts in REBOL, not in browser > internals. This has been problematic. We need to be careful > not to set up a legacy issue for REBOL. If we do this wrong, > it could come back to bite us later when we want REBOL to display > its content directly within the browser window.
I think we all would agree with not creating legacy problems. But that is why the REBOL plug-in is in Alpha - no promises have been made. Right?
> Any browser experts out there?
Unfortunately, I am not. But I have downloaded the Tcl plugin source and will peruse it later for practical pearls that I would be happy to pass on. --Scott Jones

 [49/74] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 8-Jun-2001 13:09


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) > Any browser experts out there?
Hi, well quite a bit. Can we make up a list of open questions? I know someone who is quite a wizard on the browser part and I offer to discuss these things than with him and let you all know. Robert

 [50/74] from: martin:middleton:speechworks at: 8-Jun-2001 12:01


I'm no browser expert, but I had to share this 'cause it's too cool! RT has done another excellent job. I primarily use Opera as my browser. I installed the Netscape plug-in via Netscape. I then copied the plug-in to the Opera plug-in directory, told Opera to rescan it's plug-ins and viola! it works! I can now launch REBOL scripts directly from my browser. Wicked cool! A few data points to note, though, if you want to do this: 1) Make sure you restart the browser prior to trying to use the plug-in. 2) After you close a REBOL app, you have to use the back button of the browser. Otherwise, the browser just sits there waiting to complete some instruction. It looks like it's hung, but it's not. 3) Ocasionally, it's necessary to minimize and then maximize the browser window, if redraws don't appear to happen after closing a REBOL script. - martin

 [51/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 8-Jun-2001 11:19


Martin, Try downloading the Netscape Plugin again and see if it fixes that problem. Sterling

 [52/74] from: carl:rebol at: 8-Jun-2001 11:47


Ok. Question is quite simple: When a plug-in is executed from a file association (as opposed to an embed tag), how does the plug-in keep the browser on the same page as the link? We found no API function or option for that. It's as if the designers of the plug-in API did not consider that possibility. -Carl

 [53/74] from: agem:crosswinds at: 8-Jun-2001 21:28


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ursprüngliche Nachricht <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Am 08.06.01, 19:47:21, schrieb "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> zum Thema [REBOL] Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha):
> Ok. Question is quite simple: > When a plug-in is executed from a file association (as opposed > to an embed tag), how does the plug-in keep the browser on the > same page as the link? We found no API function or option for > that. It's as if the designers of the plug-in API did not > consider that possibility.
Cruel idea: use browse/only from rebol :)
> -Carl
-Volker

 [54/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 8-Jun-2001 13:56


That doesn't quite solve the problem. Then what you end up with is one more step down the history path. For example: You go to: somesite.com/files/index.html it has a list of REBOL files you can run. You click on one which causes the browser to move forward to that page and launch REBOL on the file. Now you have to hit the back button to get back to where you were in order to click another file. But if REBOL browses another page, or even the same page as before (if we can get that information), then you do end up at the same page but with one difference... if you hit back, you're back o nthe script page and it launches again. You history would look like this: 0. somesite.com/files/index.html (current page) 1. somesite.com/files/script.r 2. somesite.com/files/index.html 3. somesite.com/index.html So it's not quite right. Thew back button gets you into really big trouble. The current NS plugin kind of does this but it prints out a page with Javascript that sends the browser back two pages so you end up on the _actual_ page that you came from. We can't yet get this to work with IE as it does not support the call to the browser to print stuff out to a new page. Sterling

 [55/74] from: kolla:nvg:ntnu:no at: 9-Jun-2001 2:30


On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 [sterling--rebol--com] wrote:
> You go to: > somesite.com/files/index.html > it has a list of REBOL files you can run. > You click on one which causes the browser to move forward to that page > and launch REBOL on the file. Now you have to hit the back button to > get back to where you were in order to click another file.
Yes, this is how it's supposed to work.
> But if REBOL browses another page, or even the same page as before (if > we can get that information), then you do end up at the same page but
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> work with IE as it does not support the call to the browser to print > stuff out to a new page.
I dont grasp any of this.. You go to a page A that has a link to a rebol script B, you click the script B and the browser uses the plugin to display the running view application inside the browser. You hit back and you're back to page A. What's problem? Are you confusing "back" with "up"? Anyone tried with Opera btw? It supports netscape plugins so there should be no problem. Sidenote... how the heck to I get passed the "Failed to create binary file /home/kolla/.rebol/rebol" problem when running view for the fist time? I find myself unable to install rebol/view on linux these days.. someone fix it please. Also, the amiga installation is kida lame, it assumes all files are located in RAM: when installing, what smart idea is that? Please, be smart and use PROGDIR:! -- kolla

 [56/74] from: arolls::bigpond::net::au at: 9-Jun-2001 15:06

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) - Volker's suggestion


See notes below.
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 [sterling--rebol--com] wrote: > > You go to:
<<quoted lines omitted: 24>>
> the running view application inside the browser. You hit back and you're > back to page A. What's problem? Are you confusing "back" with "up"?
Sterling is not confused. Volker suggested using browse/only, which creates a duplicate entry in the history as outlined above. Your statement above should be amended to: You go to page A that has a link to a rebol script B, you click the script B and the browser uses the plugin to display the running view application **inside rebol/view**, and because of limitations in the plugin api, also forces the browser to show another page (blank in this case). If, when started by the plugin, rebol/view uses browse/only to go back to the original page, THEN there are two instances of the same page in the history. Which is a problem. Anton.
> Anyone tried with Opera btw? It supports netscape plugins so there should > be no problem.
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> PROGDIR:! > -- kolla
You sound a bit annoyed. Why don't you document the above problems and submit to feedback? Regards, Anton.

 [57/74] from: agem:crosswinds at: 9-Jun-2001 9:42

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha)


wildly suggesting (no windows running): first you can open another window via frame-target. that would keep the history clean? but give you another window. then, dark memories tell: 1) you can find a foreign app's window by title. 2) you can modify the window, close it for example. setting window-title by html-title with »33695 rebol« in would enable the find.. only 99% (some other app could use that part accidentally), and i hope these features are there really.. the real way for »not a new page! start app« is the mime-app i think, plugins are the feature to be able to show something inside? but then, app-links break so easy and plugins are so cool.. BTW inserting text in IE, rebol can work as a a webserv.r, and there's a redirect-tag ;-) if peoples keep their ports open.. make sure only localhst can access of course. hm. can you send me the plugin-sources? would linux-plugin be similar? some api/sample links at hand? not that iam be able to code C after all that REBOL, but curious :) And how can i hack the need for a credit-card to get /pro?? -Volker
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ursprüngliche Nachricht <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Am 08.06.01, 14:56:00, schrieb [sterling--rebol--com] zum Thema [REBOL] Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha):

 [58/74] from: agem:crosswinds at: 9-Jun-2001 9:42

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) - Volker's suggestion


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ursprüngliche Nachricht <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Am 09.06.01, 06:06:42, schrieb "Anton" <[arolls--bigpond--net--au]> zum Thema [REBOL] Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) - Volker's suggestion:
> See notes below. > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2001 [sterling--rebol--com] wrote:
<<quoted lines omitted: 25>>
> > > > I dont grasp any of this.. You go to a page A that has a link to a
rebol
> > script B, you click the script B and the browser uses the plugin > > to display > > the running view application inside the browser. You hit back and
you're
> > back to page A. What's problem? Are you confusing "back" with "up"? > Sterling is not confused.
<<quoted lines omitted: 11>>
> THEN there are two instances of the same page > in the history.
its even harder: you have the launch-page between them. so if you hit »back« you are back on the launch-page, which launches again.. nice history-wall
> Which is a problem. > Anton. > > Anyone tried with Opera btw? It supports netscape plugins so there
should
> > be no problem. > > > > Sidenote... how the heck to I get passed the "Failed to create binary
file
> > /home/kolla/.rebol/rebol" problem when running view for the fist time? > > I find myself unable to install rebol/view on linux these days.. > > someone fix > > it please.
a yes. the good old ls .rebol -l which should show there is a .rebol - file already.. rebol puts some config-stuff there. sounds you want to make that your install-dir? error--message telling »the dir can't be made« would be better.

 [59/74] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 9-Jun-2001 7:32

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha)


From: "Carl Sassenrath"
> Ok. Question is quite simple: > > When a plug-in is executed from a file association (as opposed > to an embed tag), how does the plug-in keep the browser on the > same page as the link? We found no API function or option for > that. It's as if the designers of the plug-in API did not > consider that possibility.
I know that your question was directed at Robert's friend (The Browser Wizard), but I spent several hours at Microsoft's site looking for reasons and work-arounds. No luck so far .... :-( The RealPlayer plugin can be embedded in the browser or launched separately. When launched separately, the linking page stays put, so, of course, it *can* be done. But how? It appears to be an ActiveX (a.k.a. list soooooooo long that it is pointless to list!) component. I looked for other plugins that had similar behavior and are open source, and have not yet found one. Here is a shot in the dark: Is it possible that Microsoft's MFC foundation class for ActiveX addesses this issue? Just a thought. --Scott Jones

 [60/74] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 9-Jun-2001 15:12


> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
> that. It's as if the designers of the plug-in API did not > consider that possibility.
Hi, I have investigated this problem a bit. Sorry, no direct useable solution but some thoughts: The problem seems to be known by other (especially netscape) plug-in developers too. But I couldn't find any solution to it... Anyway, recalling my browser development skills I would expect the plug-in process to work like the following: 1. The user clicks on a link with a .r 2. This request is sent to the server 3. A response is sent to the browser 4. The browser either uses a helper app (via MIME) or checks for a plug-in to handle the response, if this fails, the response is displayed. No comes the question: If a helper app or plug-in is used, what is displayed by the browser? I would expect for a helper app the current page as is, because the helper app will be run outside the browser window. This will brake the normal message flow used by browsers [and that might be the cause for the bug]: request/response. In this case there was a request send from the browser to the server, but the response is consumed by some other object and the browser just displays a blank page, as default response. For a plug-in, which as the name says is expected to run inside a browser window, there are two conceptual possibilities: 1. The server sends a HTML response to the browser, where the plug-in output is embedded. Unlikely, because what kind of HTML file should be send by the server? It only received the .r link, and no reference to a HTML file. 2. The plug-in is responsible to provide the HTML surrounding to the browser through the DOM. This would make sense, the plug-in than has to spit out hardcoded HTML stuff to the browser. In this case the Rebol plug-in might emit a redirect to the last page, which should be mentioned somewhere in the history/referee/... I don't know if this all makes sense... Robert

 [61/74] from: ptretter:charter at: 9-Jun-2001 10:13


When I get a chance I'll try to get some info about that from the W3 org. Paul Tretter

 [62/74] from: kolla:nvg:ntnu:no at: 10-Jun-2001 17:10

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) - Volker's suggestion


On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Anton wrote:
> Sterling is not confused. > Volker suggested using browse/only, which creates a
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> api, also forces the browser to show another page > (blank in this case)."
Aha, strange behaviour. Makes it more convenient to use rebol/view as external viewer for .r scripts instead, then the browser will remain on page A. I dont see the point in plugin unless it actually _plugs_ the application into the browser, ie the browser window, and thereby act as browser content.
> > Sidenote... how the heck to I get passed the "Failed to create binary file > > /home/kolla/.rebol/rebol" problem when running view for the fist time?
<<quoted lines omitted: 9>>
> > -- kolla > You sound a bit annoyed.
Yes, sorry, this was mailed after struggling with it for half an hour or so. The linux version that is.
> Why don't you document the above problems and submit to feedback?
What's to document? I have nothing further to contribute than the above anyways, I have no idea what script rebol runs first time it is run, if I did I would look into it and find the problem myself. The thing about not using RAM: on amiga should be obvious, the problem with installing on linux doesnt make sense to me.. the install script puts the binary inside the dir then opens a requester and tells me that it couldnt do it, even though it just did. feedback works now? </duck> OK, I assume I could use feedback on the amiga, as it probably works there :) -- kolla

 [63/74] from: kolla::nvg::ntnu::no at: 10-Jun-2001 17:22

mystery solved (Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin)


On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Volker Nitsch wrote:
> > > Sidenote... how the heck to I get passed the "Failed to create binary > > > file /home/kolla/.rebol/rebol" problem when running view for the fist
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> your install-dir? error--message telling »the dir can't be made« would be > better.
Doh! :) OK, so I wanted to install into a .rebol, just to keep it hidden, and I tell rebol to install into /home/kolla/.rebol, it creates this dir and put the binary into it, then it wants to write a .rebol file, and fails since this is already the name of the directory above. The error message it gives is then that it fails to create binary /home/kolla/.rebol/rebol which really is utter nonsense, the thig it fails to create is the text file /home/kolla/.rebol If I tell it to install on /home/kolla/rebol and at same time make sure there is no /home/kolla/.rebol it works ok. Personally I would prefer that everything got stuck into a .rebol dir and the .rebol file could be in there with a more obvious name. But hey, that's just me :) -- kolla

 [64/74] from: bard:papegaaij:austarnet:au at: 11-Jun-2001 12:41

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha)


I may be totally out of my depth here, but reading this makes me wonder if it isn't possible to create a 'wrapper' that caches the URL of the page from which the file association is called and reloads this URL after the call to the REBOL script returns? Bard REBOLish bloatware, bugware, anywhere!

 [65/74] from: martin:middleton:speechworks at: 11-Jun-2001 7:21


Nope. Same result. I can switch to another window within Opera and everything seems normal. As soon as I return to the window from where I launched the REBOL app I have to use the back button. In fact if I bring the REBOL app to the foreground and drag it across the Opera window, it acts like an eraser. No screen update occurs until I use the back button. The behavior is the same whether I stop the REBOL app or not. BTW, this is the behavior under Opera 5.11 for WinNT. At 02:19 PM 06/08/2001, you wrote:
>Martin, >Try downloading the Netscape Plugin again and see if it fixes that
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
>[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the >subject, without the quotes.
- martin

 [66/74] from: carl:rebol at: 11-Jun-2001 8:48


Yep, we thought of that too. There's nothing in the plug-in API to do that. Believe me, we were as surprised as you are. We'll have to use the main API, the dreaded active-X for IE. -Carl

 [67/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 11-Jun-2001 10:59

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha) - Volker's suggestion


A _real_ plugin would draw directly into the browser window. That is a lot harder than this simple plugin that we have devised. We do want to do the complete plugin but thought that tossing this out to the community would be a good first step. The benefit you get with the plugin even now is that you can use an <EMBED ...> tag in you HTML page and you can get a REBOL program to pop up as yo uview the page. This also bypasses the blank page/stranded browser problem. You can't do this with a simple file association nor does it seem that the plugin can handle both situations by itself though we may be missing something. Sterling

 [68/74] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 11-Jun-2001 15:13

Re: REBOL Web Browser Plugin (Alpha)


From: Sterling
> A _real_ plugin would draw directly into the browser > window. That is a lot harder than this simple plugin
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> it seem that the plugin can handle both situations by itself > though we may be missing something.
Hi, Sterling, Sorry to continue to flagellate the equine post-mortem, but I really do believe it is possible to have it both ways. Last summer I grew curious about how RealPlayer could run the BigBrother feeds as either embeded app or as a separate pop-up. They used RealPlayer technology, and their default page for Internet Explorer used the RealPlayer in an embeded state. I picked apart the HTML and javascript used, and discovered that the same exact link could be used for either embeded app or pop-up. To demonstrate this point, I'll forward the HTML page that contains *both* methods on the same page using the same link. The html code does not survive line wrapping very well, so I will forward the sample file as an attachment to your rebol address so that you can see how it works. The show, is of course, over, but AOL still pipes a standard little intro feed to what was line 1, so that is what I included. RealPlayer appears to use an (overly-) ActiveX object that can accept feeds directly as an embeded app or through href links as a pop-up. Neat idea for the 0.2 alpha. --Scott Jones

 [69/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 11-Jun-2001 14:10


No problem. We're just trying to get something right in an area that we are not experts in. I just posted saying that you need two different file extensions but it may be enough to simply define two different MIME types. With MIME types often come files and extenstions but an embeded script may not have a file name associated with it but it still has a MIME type. I got your file but my browser is deficient and would not display the embeded version. RealPlayer defines a .RPM type as MIME type audio/x-pn-realaudio-plugin while also defining .SMI and .SMIL as application/smil which launches RealPlayer. I thikn we need to do this same type of thing with View and the View Plugin. Are we getting closer? Sterling

 [70/74] from: steve:shireman:semaxwireless at: 12-Jun-2001 9:13


I think sterling's calendar.r calender/scheduler might be a good plug-in test/demo to add for the B2B people... Steve

 [71/74] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 13-Jun-2001 8:13


On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:13:06 -0500 Steve Shireman <[steve--shireman--semaxwireless--com]> wrote:
> I think sterling's calendar.r calender/scheduler might be > a good plug-in > test/demo to add > for the B2B people...
Perhaps wait till it is debugged first :-) Eg. Go to edit a day, enter some data and then immediately click on the arrow to move to another day, and your edits are lost. If after adding an entry and you click on another time for that day, entries are saved. -- Graham Chiu

 [72/74] from: dmurrill:mindspring at: 13-Jun-2001 18:36


Could someone tell me what's expected from the browser plug-in and i'll share what i know. Java plug-in is for IE & NS but it's 8mb, but it is a solution, i have the docs. IE plug-in solution is the best, but it only work if you have IE in your computer, or you must download 2 small files. Hey, the barebones size is Rebols style, 1kb but it's only for windows & unix. I allso made Rebol plug-in with DHTML, applet, and activeX control with the ability to start %.r with out browser leaving page. Windows can execute %.r all ready directly from the page, the trick is putting all %.r files in tdc control or <iframe> and the page will stay there. If RT really like to solve there VID issue for browser world (replace html with easy rebol dialect would get browser Joe excited, much easier and smaller than Curl) it can easily be done. Consider the EMBED tag for the mBED runtime. It is small enough to run along side Rebol/View, and with it you can make true Reblets. It's open technology but not open source yet, maybe we can get things moving if we make a parser for there runtime. We are alloud to do that. The interactor 1.1 is a developement invorenment that could easily make VIDs automatically. Think about it please. I have no association with mBED, i just believe it needs Rebol and Rebol should consider it.

 [73/74] from: sterling:rebol at: 13-Jun-2001 17:36


The goal is to integrate REBOL with the browser in the best way possible. I think we would like, eventually, to cover these three actions: 1. Click a .r file link on the web and that script is launched in REBOL. It needs to make it's own window to display anything. The browser does not go anywhere. This is solved by associating .r files to REBOL right now. Netscape calls them Helper Applications. 2. Handle anembed tags in a web page which also launch to a REBOL process. This allows for the web and REBOL to exist side by side. This requires a plugin though it would seem that a second MIME type s needed to differentiate between the plugin and the helper app so the corect one is launched. If the plugin is launched for a .r link, the browser is stranded on a blank page. The current plugin handles the embed tag but the second MIME type has not been finalized and the IE version has a little registry work that is required to store the proper MIME type and file extension of the plugin on installation. If the plugin did this and only handled EMBED tags while the helper app handled links, people would have a stable way to display REBOL scripts within the web environment while we work on getting #3 working. 3. Embed the REBOL window output within the browser window itself like shockwave, realplayer, and more. We, not being plugin or browser experts, do not yet know what is required for this to happen. It may not be possible. At the very least it would probably (just guessing) impose many usage restrictions on the programmer as they could not create new windows, resize the working window ,and maybe some other stuff. But it would be cool to have an active REOBL app just sitting right there in the browser. I think that covers the plugin goals. Both the IE and NS plugins use the NS plugin dll but there are limitations to the IE support for NS plugins so maybe and ActiveX one is required to do it right. Any insights you have into this process would be invaluable. Feel free to contact me on or off list. Sterling

 [74/74] from: t-man:onemain at: 14-Jun-2001 8:32


howdy-- In IE clicking any hyperlink causes the browser to navigate unless the event is cancelled. The way around would be to target a hidden iframe or frame, which (In IE, at least) is still a part of the history (back button navigates the iframe back.) You don't get a blank page, but you get an extra history entry. The other way could be to handle the event with a little script and add the iframe dynamically using the DOM. IE is very kind about this sort of thing, and since creating the iframe with src already set doesn't cause the navigation event, so it is as if the history went nowhere, the current location only adding more content. I'll look at this a little more and see if I can figure out ways to prevent the navigation to a new page with the current plugin. T

Notes
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