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[ALLY] Before the pleading starts

 [1/11] from: allen:rebolforces at: 10-Jan-2001 8:07


Hi Allies, At this time last year we started with beta 1 of View, 6 months later there were streams and streams of "me too" messages asking to be allowed into the beta. So where is everyone's rebsites?, where are the contributions. I think we saw more collaboration and contribution in the first 6 months amongst a handfull of us, than I've seen in the last 6 since everybody has had View. I only hope that all these people are at least contributing bug reports and feedback. And soon we'll have a stream of "me too's" from those same invisible people wanting to test Link... If you've been a visible contributor, you will get invited by your peers when the time is right, if you have a genuine business case for testing contact [dan--rebol--com]. But for all the people who just want to look over the fence at what their neighbours are doing, please wait until its released (or maybe even get some practice in by building a rebsite).. Cheers, Allen K

 [2/11] from: ptretter:primary at: 10-Jan-2001 8:48


Allen, I agree with your statements. I too remember how much everyone was excited including myself early on. However, I had some /View script that no longer function correctly due to changes with /View. My problem is I dont want to undertake learning something I cant find proper information readily available. That is why /Core has become so attractive as of late since the core.pdf and the Official Guide. The documentation is pretty good although not yet complete in my opinion its complimentary at least to ones efforts to learn it. I cant say the same about /View however. I understand that resources at RT maybe limited given the amount of projects they are working on (I assume that is the case). I believe my best effort to learn /View will have to start with my mastery of /Core. I hope to move to /View very soon. Paul Tretter

 [3/11] from: dan:rebol at: 10-Jan-2001 16:59


Hey Brett (and others), Oh I hate that work clique...reminds me of little school kids :-) We don't mean to have a clique going. Like I said, we needed some testers and not too many, so we were fortunate to be able to tap our community resources and they have proven invaluable as usual. We hope to be ready to open up Express on a wider scale in the near future, but like you mentioned, there are limited resources and lots of pressing issues. Allen is not an employee of RT, but his summary was quite accurate. Right now we can only bring on beta testers with serious business cases for Express. I sent Mike a few words about Express to clarify it further and will copy them here for you. ______________ Within Express right now, we're running a number of applications including contacts, knowledge base, bug report, calendar, conferencing, chat, ToDo, and a bunch of specific apps for pilot companies. As you'd expect, Link does all the processing and the Serve side of Express primarily does syncing and updating. The great thing about Express is it is built on REBOL, so customization, new apps, bug fixes, etc. can almost be done in real time. __________________ We'll have a lot more explanations on the site in short order, so sorry for seeming so stealthy...we're just a little buried like most of you. If you do have a serious business case for Express and would like to consider it as a distributed communications solution for your company or affiliate, please let me know. Best Regards, Dan At 11:39 AM 1/11/01 +1100, you wrote:

 [4/11] from: allenk::powerup::com::au at: 10-Jan-2001 23:48


Hi Allies, At this time last year we started with beta 1 of View, 6 months later there were streams and streams of "me too" messages asking to be allowed into the beta. So where is everyone's rebsites?, where are the contributions. I think we saw more collaboration and contribution in the first 6 months amongst a handfull of us, than I've seen in the last 6 since everybody has had View. I only hope that all these people are at least contributing bug reports and feedback. And soon we'll have a stream of "me too's" from those same invisible people wanting to test Link... If you've been a visible contributor, you will get invited by your peers when the time is right, if you have a genuine business case for testing contact [dan--rebol--com]. But for all the people who just want to look over the fence at what their neighbours are doing, please wait until its released (or maybe even get some practice in by building a rebsite).. Cheers, Allen K

 [5/11] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 11-Jan-2001 9:01


Allen, as all ppl here already know, I am the most famous user here sounding as an broken record :-) I think ppl user View here and there, but on the other hand, you know that sometimes ppl want to use lower levels of VID, and VID is not still set in stone. The problem also is, that /View is out for one year, but still in beta version. I sincerely believe, that Link development will bring us some updata to View VID and View core itself in some 3 or 4 months, and we will see first 1.0 non-expirable version .... There is also issue with View distribution/redistribution licence, I think RT still considers various possibilities. I think great times are ahead. Once Holger adds async root protocol stuff, View core gets drawing stuff from Link (together with features mentioned by Holger but not currently implemented) and some other already suggested goodies, it will be cool. I would like to write second article for one of our mags - the main one - XX pages, as a form of tutorial to View (VID), but will not do so before things will get more stable .... Cheers, -pekr- Allen Kamp wrote:

 [6/11] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 11-Jan-2001 8:31


On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:48:18 +1000 "Allen Kamp" <[allenk--powerup--com--au]> wrote:
> beta. So where is everyone's rebsites?, where are the > contributions. I think
Allen, I think you'll find the 'add rebsite' function in View doesn't work. Perhaps that's why there are no new rebsites. Script submissions also go unanswered by RT. -- Graham Chiu

 [7/11] from: brett:codeconscious at: 11-Jan-2001 11:39


Allen, Your wording implies you an official representative of RT. Is this the case? If not, then while I respect your massive contributions to Rebol, it may be better to let RT manage interest in their product. Dan has already explained entry to the Link clique on this list. Brett.

 [8/11] from: sqlab:gmx at: 11-Jan-2001 13:40


> Hi Allies, > At this time last year we started with beta 1 of View, 6 months later
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> and > feedback.
Sometimes every posting deserves a reply. Months ago I tried a few scripts with /view, but new releases broke them always, so I decided that I could restrain myself from much work learning Rebol/View, until it would gain a safer level. As long as /View is not in a final stage without expiration dates, I will not do serious work with it. And I will for sure not plead for a program like /Express/Beta, where I can not estimate if and how useful it could be. AR PS. RT offers /Beta releases freely on their web site. -- Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net

 [9/11] from: allenk:powerup:au at: 11-Jan-2001 19:54


----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Handley" <[brett--codeconscious--com]> To: <[ally-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: [ALLY] Re: Before the pleading starts
> Allen, > > Your wording implies you an official representative of RT. Is this the
case?
> If not, then while I respect your massive contributions to Rebol, it may
be
> better to let RT manage interest in their product. > Dan has already explained entry to the Link clique on this list. > > Brett.
Sorry if it sounded that way Brett, I didn't mean to imply anything of that sort. I was trying to clarify a few things before we (as in members of this list) got inundated with requests, from new REBOLs who've joined this ally-list. I think most people on the ally list are contributors and members of the REBOL community such as yourself, the ally-list itself is a "clique". The point Paul makes about scripts breaking through changes and wishing to learn the core better, rather than the shifting sands is also a good point, and the fact that the submission script isn't working, does help answer my question as to why there are so few contributions. Most mail on the list lately has been to ask why it is so quite. Now I have some answers why. An understanding of View and Core is important to write apps for Link. I was hoping to encourage more activity in View scripting before/if Link is opened up, like the View beta was. Now is a good time to learn View, maybe it would help if I should offer a cash prize? Cheers, Allen K

 [10/11] from: brett:codeconscious at: 11-Jan-2001 22:37


Thanks for your email Allen.
> An understanding of View and Core is important to write apps for Link. > I was hoping to encourage more activity in View scripting before/if Link
is
> opened up, like the View beta was.
Thats good info.
> Now is a good time to learn View, maybe > it would help if I should offer a cash prize?
I have my doubts that a cash prize would be beneficial to View scripting in the long term - even if you have deep pockets. A released version would be the biggest boost. It enables people to write applications that they can depend on - either for themselves or for sale. The threat/risk of an expired beta prevents Rebol applications being written for centre stage. It is a big enough risk already for many, to spend time on a relatively little known technology, unless that technology can be seen to be dependable and compelling. For myself, I've put a large amount of time into Rebol. Admittedly a lot for pleasure. But now that I have spent the time I'm faced with the question "will it pay off?". If I'd spent the same time on Java I could have called up an agent straight away. Back to the issue of encouraging/inspiring scripting. Useful applications as exmples may help spark interest - like the image sorter. Things that actually do work and solve problems. Another might be Config. managers for linux (I don't use it but I understand such a thing maybe useful). Day to day stuff that is "high value". Brett.

 [11/11] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 12-Jan-2001 8:33


> An understanding of View and Core is important to write > apps for Link. > I was hoping to encourage more activity in View scripting > before/if Link is
Allen, Perhaps you could explain what Link is, so we can decide whether or not to flood this list with 'me too' requests :-)
> opened up, like the View beta was. Now is a good time to > learn View, maybe > it would help if I should offer a cash prize? >
I don't know about other people, but my only reason to use Rebol is to solve problems. The lack of definitive documentation for View means that I create more problems than the ones I want solved when I use View. The ODBC problems with Command speak for themselves. Now if RT release a View with a fixed version of Command, I think we'll see an explosion of scripts. -- Graham Chiu

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