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[REBOL] Re: understanding rebol

From: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 8-Jan-2004 22:05

Hi Cybarite ( Sorry I don't really know your first name) and everybody, I also found a moment to look back at the %easy-vid.r content. Definitely needs a content update for what was then promised as the last missing part when Carl did the job. I am glad that you kindly offered to the community your help to advance this part of the documentation - if I well understood your intent. I'd be happy too if you wanted to contact me personally so we could exchange about what content you exactly planned to put in there. May be I can help in some way. Don't hesitate to send me an email since I will later add myself some parts to it when I will know more about the way VID internals do their work. But I have so much to learn about REBOL itself before. And while I looked around for what Carl and collaborators had done with the cookbook and the library I found precisely what I was looking for as a newcomer. This can be expressed as follows and I will follow my intuition to try to let the community implement it this way if possible. In fact it should not be too difficult as many of the pieces are already in place. Just some optimization and this will be OK. I'll address separately the FORUM that was pointed here recently in another thread. As Sunanda also pointed before I propose my name to help advance this file as I view it as a requirement to help any new beginner navigate and learn more and easily. During this time period I will also tryi to react positively to all the suggestions that have been done and I hope will continue to flow until some useful and durable difference appears to all the material that already exists so that it become even more useful than now. Don't forget that there is an enormous amount of material already accessible - I simply suggest to fill some holes : some occur in the presentation, some in the indexing and some in the examples offered (or not offered yet) as support for beginners. That's all. In my head and everybody is welcome to react to my teacher's view, the things actually present themselves as I remember from my previous first reading (already a couple of years ago) : Remember that here I will not take into account all the parts related to the professional use (as done by programmers) of all the products developed and distributed by RT but I will concentrate only on the learning part of the REBOL Core language and its View counterpart - which I have to learn completely from start so I will surely need help... A- A main web site (REBOL.COM) with : 1. The official DOCs for Core, View and other products 2. Many other DOCs to help learn and use "some part of" the fundamentals. (those were appropriately named tutorials but could have also been named as "Quick start" since they fall short to further illustrate other more real small tasks as those found in programmer's diary. I would say of them that these DOCs do a real job to present the reader at a glance the spirit in which REBOL and its other constituents (View) can be used for many "simple" tasks" - some are simple because of the power of REBOL but nevertheless they are simple even for a newbie to grasp. 3. The official library - Remember that its actual main function is not specifically related at all with newbies looking for learning material not per se but more due to the fact that most of the material sitting in the repository has not been designed - except for some exception - to be used as real teaching material. They look more as concrete projects that were learned by programmers - some being themselves new to REBOL but others being gurus and the rest standing in the between. So the library cannot be BLAMED and even less flamed for anything in this sense and netheir their authors. But I personally know the time and effort required to produce some useful teaching material and I must say that the most requiring is the one produced for the self-educated person. In this regards it is similar in some extent to the way a computer program must be prepared and tested before final production launching. If not completely tested for fault tolerance there is no warranty that it will become a success story. Remember when tried some program coded by another ppl. The chances are great it did not function in all cases. When it arrived how did you react ? Think that a newcomer will do the same. So we must be better prepared to deliver some material as good as can be done with our resources. In fact nothing forces us to do anything all if we don't want but having been frustrated myself in the beginning, I hope to fill the gaps I have met on my road. Many of what blocked me before is already present but if I want to present ( or review) some new material I will have to rely on a new knoledge I will acquire or share this responsibility with some of the ML. And I am sure that it will be done because we all have this feeling of something that can be done better and we are the ones that are better placed to help others in this regards. I will leave out other parts that I'm not considering useful in the learning arena for the moment. B - A secondary web site (REBOL.NET) with : 4- The cookbook that is actually beginning to fill the gap described above.So we must all contribute keep up the good job already done there. There will be some need to classify what has already been done and even as suggested Sunanda to include some category in the Library that refers to the cookbook - and to some extent the actual work done should be in a near converted and included (say the two sites should better be intergated together instead of doing overlapping work) C - Many other web sites (not officially RT supported ) with : 5 - Many useful but sparse information pieces (tutorials, tips, tricks, codes, examples) for example: Compkarori, Vanilla, REBOLFrance, Forums, Wikis, Chats, AltMe, ... even IOS and View Rebs network are in the band but they are officially part of REBOL. We can't act upon them but their content can be referred and their owner can contribute to our web site for some small specific part if we ask them to look at what they can offer. D- A lot of distribution tools and exchange of information Should be minimized. Web presentation (XML + HTML + DB) should be used preferably to other medium (see below) but REBOL is welcome to help automate the tasks and help the generation and other tasks like is done with the library. I will probably try Vanilla (with recent Jason's invitation to support me) as my personal work tool. E- Not much of outside visibility - better than a couple of years however since Google reveals about 75000 pages when searching the REBOL word. We'll have to plan and generate some real META Keyword tags to help Google find our work This should be added automatically to any HTML HEADER page by any HTML REBOL generator. What I want to add to the library is some as clear as possible examples with related explanations in the following categories : 1. Coding examples for every Word appearing in the official dictionary. a- on a word by word basis with trivial but useful examples b- can and will be teached in standalone mode c- I would also like them to be put in perspective when compared to something like, say VB. This choice is very personal - and not negociable for me - since this is the best I can do. If others want to contribute with their own, they are welcome to do so. d- every example will be offered according the following ways until something is done to fusion them in a new format if necessary : a- easy-vid as executable with explanations included - The ultimate DEMO (try ans test) environment I dreamed of all my life as a teacher (for VB) but it could be enhanced further by incorporating the EDITOR with save with versioning allowed on the original file in use or a copy. Later the inclusion of some way to view, select and mix parts of code coming from external sources should be added too. (Looks like some kind of app for you Max with your Slim ;-) b- Web - HTML (until I learn to work with XML) c- Library (REBOL.ORG) for view and download from the Web. d- Vanilla (during experimentation, exchange with others and cataloging) Discussion open until tomorrow. I must go to bed. Bye everybody, Gerard P.S. Sorry for the lenghty mail. If you already some part of code related to any word send them to me. I'll classify them as soon as received and begin the work. Others that have questions or suggestions can send me emails too - directly if not of general concern. I'll try to use as much transparency as possible.