[REBOL] Re: OT, was Re: What's Native
From: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 23-Jun-2004 14:12
Mauro Fontana wrote:
>
>>That quote simply isn't right. Java is just bloat, REBOL is just
>>simple. These are two different concepts, though probably they're
>>hard to fit in some minds. ;)
>>
>>
>
>They are undoubtly two products aimed at different markets and different
>solutions.
>
>GUIs are always a complex thing, and modern ones also tends to be bloated.
>
>See Linux for example. Lately it is becoming more and more similar to
>Windows for resource needs. Expecially if you try to use the new gui
>framework.
>
>You can use Pine for your email, but probably Opera is a better integrated
>tool for internet in general. See the program sizes.
>
>Time where managing a entire OS + GUI in 512K of code is gone. That
>miracle was also Carl's product, but now we see that GUIs have more and
>more importance and their weight in every application is very big.
>
>Still REBOL is not that "efficient" when speaking of memory usage.
>
No, it is not, that is for sure. Nor is Mozilla in comparison to IE. We
suffer because of that, because porting rebol onto mobile devices will
not be trivial. But maybe also in a year or two it will not be an issue
anymore, as even today's PDAs have 64 - 128MB RAM. OTOH:
- we are currently choosing some additional products to our SAP system,
middleware one. We were adviced for the system to work properly (purely
Java based), it needs at least 2GB RAM. Now that is really hilarious. So
- before you tell us Rebol UI consumes too much of a memory, please just
show me native Java UI. I saw one with 50K USD product - man it sucked
and Cyphre's tree-view would beat it speed-wise, whatever-wise pov you
choose.
- I was OO programmer too. We used CA-Visual Objects here. Objects are
fine, but those widgets are pretty well hardwired. If they don't provide
you with certain method, you can do nearly nothing to change that. You
can override some functionality, but that is all. Once we wanted to add
e.g. background image onto main screen, we had to hack two page strict
win32 code into our app. Simply because window class of CA-VO did not
provide us with that. And here comes beauty of compositing system of
View - it is just rectangle area to draw into + event system - you can
hack whatever UI element you want, if you are skilled enough. Not having
good docs is main obstacle right now, but I hope it will change.
Last six months I brought my another friend to Rebol. He really
complained about text-list, list etc. styles having somehow unfinished
functionality etc. I showed him Cyphre's work - he told me he could not
imagine it is even possible. I explained him basics of face based
composition (non VID) and in a week he showe me his own grid style. Now
he works for some company using some strict OO tool too and he often
mentions - if I even had oportunity to use View - I could change what I
want about UI element. All I can say is - simplicity.
Cheers,
-pekr-
