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[REBOL] Re: Who read this mailing list?

From: ale870:gma:il at: 25-Nov-2007 22:02

Petr, I think we have a different point of view about open source and commercial applications. Just to talk: maybe only Guido is developing python kernel, but there is a huge community because they share the concept of open source. Orca? I did not follow the project details, but maybe there are other reasons because it failed. You either want to offer yourself free-of-charge, or you don't want to :-) That is just a bit of disrespect to all those who collaborate on R3 for free. No! Absolutely! You are wrong! How can you think that? There is simply a different point of view. Again: I only say that commercial apps need commercial quality structure. It is not feasible creating a commercial application using volunteers. Furthermore because RT does not offer Rebol core as commercial product and stop: they offer VID, Oracle drivers, database drivers, encryption, etc... Many years ago I bought Amiga (and I lost my money and time) OS/2 (and I lost my money and time) . Then I bought BeOS (and I lost my money and time), etc... I think that in few months you will be able to contribute. I just fear
> that even then you might feel uncomfort with situation, becase RT might > not just commercially release module you would like to have, and you > will probably remind us, that Python, PHP, Perl, Ruby all have it. But > remember - at that time those part will be open source. So - what will > be your answer then? >
All Rebol code as Open Source? Or a part of it? ALL the code? I don't think. But... ok. I don't want to continue in this way, because it seems I want to broke the job of other people. My only problem is I make programs either to work (I need money to eat, and to let my family eat too!), and for hobby (not so much time :-( ). If I pay Rebol, and I use it to work, I need to be sure to get commercial quality upgrades, assistance, etc... Furthermore I need to be sure that I'm not spending my time in a dream-project. Else I will use Rebol just for fun, for hobby. Bye Petr.
> arguments - do you think that open sourcing R3 nowadays would gain us 10 > of quality R3 coders? If so - go and send them to finish Orca, the clone. > > What Gabriele stated here, is very fair. I am not even sure it was > appropriate to disclose such things in public. But believe him. If he > says he wrote VID3 prototype in few weeks, he is not probably lying. If > he thinks that finishing it will take some 3 months, he is probably > right too. He is now under contract with another party, but If I am not > wrong, he is on his way to US to meet with Carl and Cyphre to discuss > further R3 plans. > > Now shortly to your questions: > > > > > 1) it seems (but it is not clear) that there are only a few people that > work > > on Rebol (you, Carl, and another couple of guys). > > > > yes > > 2) All Rebol developers do not work at full time to Rebol development. > > > > yes. But - what is your point here once again? How many ppl do you think > apart from Guido do design work on Python3? Carl himself might be enough > to work on Cores. Once R3 goes public, it will be community's > responsibility to actually not complain, but extend the platform. So, > let's better prepare for that stage .... > > > 3) It seems there are more information about the development plans of RT > > here in this topic than in any other place: it means, maybe, the > > communication between RT and other people (Rebol fans!) is not well > > performed. > > > Why? What do you know about internal Py3 development process? Once > again, no matter how hard those of us informed try to inform others > here, no matter how much Carl blogs, Henrik blogs, no matter what can be > found on Altme, it still does not seem to be enough. I don't buy your > arguments about work and being behind proxy - surely you are online even > at home, no? It seems to me, that some ppl simply refuse to join Altme, > because once again - it is not crappy web public accessible forum, it > has to be downloaded, installed, is not open source and other more or > less psychological nonsenses, rather than accepting the fact, that > without much closer channel the development would be 10 times slower. > > > 4) It seems that there is not any official development plan. > Be sure there is some concrete strategy, just not probably deadlines set > .... > > I think this > > could be a good method (well... not good... but acceptable) for Open > Source > > / free apps (developed by the volunteers in their free-time), but this > is > > not acceptable in a professional development. Yes, in fact, sometimes, > we > > discuss here as if we are talking about free apps, but we should not > forget > > we are talking about commercial application. Imagine that, several years > > ago, I bought a Command license for my company (they do not allowed me > to > > buy further licenses since the development was stalled... that was the > > impression). Then I bought a personal license (View/Pro) for me. > > > I bougth /Pro, 3x /Command, IOS, and believe me, there is probably any > other person being more critical to some past RT moves. There are even > some things I don't like nowadays, but I just got to the point to try to > help, rather than complain endlessly. > > Again:we should not forget that from RT I do expect a commercial quality > > program, commercial quality upgrades, assistance, etc... > > > We don't forget it. Just suggest what to do about it? Just stating RT > "should" does not magically solve the situation :-) > > Look at other programs like Real Basic, Runtime Revolution, 3D Game > Studio > > (I use it for 3D, and it has an affordable price for an Indie developer, > > Beyond Virtual, etc....), etc... (I do stop here, but I could proceed > with > > many other programs...). All these development tools, have regular > upgrades, > > new milestone releases, etc... That's all. > > > R3 Alpha is at its 82nd release update, for those who are involved with > Alpha. Once things are ready in DevBase, you can have as many releases > as you wish :-) > > I want to highlight that I like Rebol, but I'm afraid that RT seems to > > manage it as a product created by some volunteers, not by a commercial > > company. > > > You are right here, and hopefully that changes. It was already > communicated to Carl, and that is maybe why RT was/is looking for > marketing guy ... > > > During these days I was even thinking to offer me to help in Rebol > > development. But the problem is this: > > > > 1) Since Rebol is not free (and RT gains money from it), I cannot offer > me > > as free-of-charge. > > > You either want to offer yourself free-of-charge, or you don't want to > :-) That is just a bit of disrespect to all those who collaborate on R3 > for free. > > 2) If I could work for free, mybe in the future, if Rebol developement > will > > be stopped, I will remain with *NOTHING* in my hands, since it is not > free. > > > > IIRC, REBOL is in escrow, if RT would go under, sources would be > released, but I don't know details. With R3, it should be also easier to > "clone" it, as kernels will be better defined, API will exist .... > > > Don't forget: I talk in this way because I like Rebol, else I was not > here > > to spend my time to talk about it! :-) > > > > I think that in few months you will be able to contribute. I just fear > that even then you might feel uncomfort with situation, becase RT might > not just commercially release module you would like to have, and you > will probably remind us, that Python, PHP, Perl, Ruby all have it. But > remember - at that time those part will be open source. So - what will > be your answer then? I ask, because I think of those problems daily. And > I think we should accept bounties. I would pay some few bucks to have > some feature available, I am not able to code it myself, someone other > might do it. Company I worked for sponsored development of RebGUI grid > and Windows SysTray support, which will be probably part of R3. > > My whole post was not personal attack to your opinions. It is just that > I would like to see ppl start to think, of how to help us improve the > situation with realistic actions, taking into account resources we have > available. Both you and me would surely like to see RT having tens of > coders and community being 10folds in size ... > > Cheers, > Petr > > Ciao Gabriele! > > > > > > > > On Nov 25, 2007 5:14 PM, Gabriele Santilli <santilli.gabriele-gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from the list, just send an email to > lists at rebol.com with unsubscribe as the subject. >
-- //Alessandro http://sguish.wordpress.com http://laccio.wordpress.com