[REBOL] Re: Yes, REBOL/Core is still free
From: m:koopmans2:chello:nl at: 22-May-2001 20:55
Holger is right.
I work at a fortune top 500 company, one of Europe's largest bank-insurance
We have used Rebol in some little projects and are currently developing a
major online finanial solution in Rebol (cost so far over $300.000). All
server based logic is in Command, and I ordered /Express and /Pro licenses
as well. I hope to be live before the end of the year.
As financial insitituions are careful about their image I can't give a
custimer quote (yet), but once we go live I'l make sure there is one.
The kind of money Rebol asks for their products is really peanuts to us,
especially compared to our other software. I can't buy VisualAge for Java
for the Command price (and then I have command on all platforms). Let alone
Websphere. And I have yet to see Java outperform Rebol, both in memory
consumption and CPU usage.
We kid around here that we can serve 50 concurrent clients with Rebol in
(fast) cgi in the same amount of memory that it takes to start up Websphere.
So that's for the competition.
Draw your own conclusions.
As for other software:
- I do like the Oracle stuff AND need it on linux and Solaris, but sometimes
we need it el cheapo as well. Hence I made a binding to the mysql lib (see
- I try to provide you with any infrastructural software I develop, see the
LDC goes Rugby post yesterday, erebol itself, design by contract and
Is it time for the Rebol Standard Library? As I pay $25 anyway to host
erebol.com , I can provide hosting. Anybody?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Holger Kruse" <[holger--rebol--com]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: [REBOL] Yes, REBOL/Core is still free
> I would like to address a few issues that have come up in the recent
> on REBOL's licensing policy. Hopefully this clarifies some things and
> explains our position and motivation. Sorry for the length of this mail.
> 1. Core licensing status
> Core 2.5 has been released with a specific license. This license is still
> and you can keep using Core 2.5 with that license. The license does not
> expiration. Yes, there is now a DIFFERENT license available for Core, a
> license for US$ 79.00, but this does not invalidate any existing licenses.
As a rule,
> when there are several licensing options for a product then you can choose
> you want.
> The commercial license for US$ 79.00 actually not only covers Core but
> (once it is released), i.e. unlike the free Core license it comes with a
> license agreement, a personalized key file etc. Until Core/Pro is released
> provide commercial licensees with Core 2.5 which is why Core is listed as
> with the US$ 79.00 price tag, but once Core/Pro is available commercial
> switch to Core/Pro, if they want to, free of additional charge.
> 2. About Core remaining "free"
> We currently do not have any plans to charge individuals for Core, not now
and not in
> future versions, i.e. if you would like to download Core and write your
> play around with it, give it to your friends etc., then you are free to do
> still intend Core and View to be the center pieces for building the REBOL
> Commercial licensing is a different story though. Commercial licensing is
> about communities, voluntary participation etc., but about profit, e.g.
> companies creating derivative products from REBOL and selling them, or
> companies using Core as a corner stone of their in-house IT solution in
> to cut cost and reduce development time. In situations like that we would
> to (and actually need to) be involved and get our share. We believe that
> another company profits from our work then it is only fair that we receive
> portion of that, considering the amount of time and money that has gone
> This is not just about licensing fees but also about public recognition of
> cases when REBOL has been a useful tool for a company. Knowing those cases
> making them public helps us and the REBOL community as a whole, by
> the public recognition of REBOL through joint press releases, partnership
> agreements etc.
> A "completely free" license that does not even encourage such companies to
> contact us and talk to us about their use of REBOL is harmful not just to
> us but to the REBOL community. REBOL would remain a "secret", and in the
> we would all lose.
> We do not believe that limiting the term "free" in its usual
> "free of charge" to non-commercial use in any way diminishes the spirit of
> promise of Core remaining free in the future. I guess that depends on what
> meant by "free" though. People use that term in different ways. See below.
> 3. What it means for something to be "free"
> "Free" is not the same as "free of charge". For an individual "free" may
> being allowed to use software without paying for it though. We recognize
> and that's why Core IS free (of charge) for individuals.
> For commercial use very few things in life are truly free of charge, in
> situations, so in commercial environments the term "free" is usually more
> closely related to "freedom" ("liberty") than to "free or charge".
> A few examples:
> When you listen to the radio, music is free, right ? (Well, in the US
> In Germany there are public radio fees...) Does that mean you can make
> off the radio for your personal use ? Yes, usually. Does it mean you can
> recordings and sell them ? No way. So radio reception is NOT really free
> is it ? Most people would argue that it IS, but that in the context of
> use the term "free" does not apply in the same way, because things get
> complicated, there are different licensing and copyright issues etc. etc.
> way, for you as a consumer none of these rules in any way limit your
> listen to the radio for FREE, right ? That's why people say radio
reception is free.
> Have you ever seen items in stores (Best Buy etc.) with mail-in rebate
> them ? Sometimes those mail-in rebates are equal to the purchase price of
> product (e.g. for floppy disks or tapes), so you basically get the product
> free, and stores advertise that. Is it free for everyone ? No. Often these
> only apply to individuals, not companies, there are limits on the number
> rebates you can claim per household, you have to live in the US, you must
> a bank account etc. So they are not free then ? People who "bought" them
> really paying would disagree. They ARE free, but there are exceptions. One
> exception is that companies cannot expect to get a year's worth of disk
> for backups of their corporate file server without paying a single dime.
> a company told you that those disks cannot be called free because the
> cannot use this offer to reduce their backup costs to zero, would you take
> seriously ? Probably not. The disks would still be free for you and your
> and thus "free" for all practical purposes.
> Many, many more examples are possible, in different markets, different
> Or look at it the other way around: if you claim something is NOT free
> next question is "how much does it cost ?". If your friend asks you that
> then the answer is "nothing", so now you have a product that is presumably
but "costs nothing" ? :-) Most people would consider this an