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world-name: r3wp

Group: Ann-Reply ... Reply to Announce group [web-public]
nice work ashley I'm going to study your code to see have is your 
new method and inspire me of it to MDP-GUI preview rending
Ashley: your wellcome for your consern but in fact integrating your 
new engine from MDViewer only takes my 2-3 hours ( in fact i spent 
more time like 10 hours to try to mixe both method has it wasn't 
has performant has your rendering full engine I cleared the mixed 
one and retake as it MD-Viewer engine then I adpat it to MDP standars 
) Now MDP-GUI has a super fast rendering engine like MDViewer (Ineed 
to enhance the speed of the toc window rendering that the only slowing 
remaining step). Another time what a work you made as  I trully knows 
it intimely (because of the work needed to integrate it to MDP-GUI) 
I can say that in front the previous rendering method you made really 
a ART WORK it's clear it's tiny it's easy to understand :)
But with the same engine that works perfectly in MDP-GUI (with a 
little bad redering on the s caracter I don't know why..)
jaime for linux GUI you get a lot of possibilities rebol.view, WX, 
GTK+; QT, X11, TK
Colin -- "Problem is nobody is really looking for "rebol"."
That's true -- they are looking for solutions to problems.

 It is possible for our websites to rank highly in all sorts of areas. 
  For example, in the last three days people have found REBOL.org 
 because it ranks in the top 10 for Google for these phrases:
-- hex to integer converter
-- gui maker
-- html script calendar notes
-- script library
-- parsing html links

I suggested a year or so back (REBOL world, Advocacy, I think) that 
REBOL wevbsite owners could collaberate to help these sorts of rankings. 
 Still true.
rebol is an integrated solution.  NO OTHER LANGUAGE is soo  integrated 
a part for java, and IMHO just because its much more mature.   Managing 
databases, GUI, Image processing, drawing, doing cgi scripting, out 
of the box), working on direct tcp port in 1-2 lines of code, mails, 
and all of this in ONE no-install 500k  file!
nice volker MDP-GUI needs find / highligt and replace/hightligt systeme 
yes. but they had that all the time. timers are related to gui, and 
that is different on OS/X.
Group: RAMBO ... The REBOL bug and enhancement database [web-public]
does it have a GUI too?
>> do http://www.lexicon.net/antonr/rebol/gui/demo-percent-progress.r
connecting to: www.lexicon.net

** User Error: Error.  Target url: http://www.lexicon.net/antonr/rebol/gui/demo-percent-progress.r
could not be retrieved.  Server re

** Near: do http://www.lexicon.net/antonr/rebol/gui/demo-percent-progress.r
Seems so. But i had a memory-leak by this. Seems making objects is 
not that common when the gui is set up. Then extend incomming objects 
with a default one, in that case it drove me mad.
The whole noask part is support for me while developing.  If something 
is wonky before the gui gets up and exposes the Exit button there 
would be no way out of my app, so noask starts out false.
Group: I'm new ... Ask any question, and a helpful person will try to answer. [web-public]
Graham - EMR system for doctors - http://synapsedirect.com/default.aspx

Ashley - RebGUI - alternative gui system for View, less resource 
hundry, less free form, but more complete, fine docs! - http://www.dobeash.com/

Maxim - he does stuff, no one properly understands, he is kind of 
crazy, but we like him :-) Data Flow engines etc. Look for Still, 
Liquid, Elixir, etc.
I believe in Carl's vision "REBOL is perfect for lightweight distributed 
applications". Users need light-weight responsive gui clients that 
can work both online and offline. The evolution of the Web is moving 
(slowly) in this direction, with AJAX/Flash/JavaFX as examples of 
a more responsive and rich gui clients, BUT it's too complex and 
unreliable. The industry is adding kludge upon kludge to "fix" the 
problems resulting in further complexity and code bloat, but what 
is needed is a clean approach that captures the essence of what made 
the web a phenomal success in the first place - any body could set 
up/develop a web site and they did. Enterprise data centers need 
scalable, reliable, manageable (server) applications that run 24x7 
on commodity hardware ata reasonable price. The user PC's should 
require zero management for the applications, which is the primary 
(only?) attraction of the web ui. Question if the application is 
simple to manage and delivers the functionality the user wants, why 
do they need a fat complex os? As an example my kids get online to 
play games, research homework, etc. and they hate it (so do I) when 
the PC/OS gets in the way. Also, that PC/OS is a major source of 
 trouble with viruses and lack of (simple) control to what my kids 
can access.
The more coding paradigms you know, the better it is. Rebol is great, 
but doesn't preclude you from investing tile in other languages. 
Rebol is one of the highest level language you will find, with maximum 
expressiveness. But learning Lisp is a whole experience, and OO coding 
is kind of vital these days as well (for GUI stuff, for example). 
Anyway, I got to Rebol because Carl sold it very well  to my ears. 
I was a Rexx scripter, coding also in javascript, actionscript, and 
lua. Lua  is great, as well. Compares well in some respect to Rebol. 
Good luck.
Since REBOL requires a programmer to 

think differently", in general what type of person, skill set, and/or 
background is required for a person to be a good REBOL programmer?" 

You just have to be open minded, and I think it helps to be curious. 
You also need to understand that REBOL is high level, but not safe 
in the sense of being dumbed-down so you can't do dangerous things. 
You can do *very* dangerous things in REBOL. You don't have direct 
mem access, so the risk is mainly to your own app, but since it's 
almost infinitely flexible, you can create works of art, or hideous 

 "what attracted everyone on this newsgroup to REBOL? And, in general, 
 what type of applications are people trying to build?"

The small size, built-in GUI, and tiney-but-powerful demos are what 
attracted me initially. To be able to download the EXE, install it, 
and run 5 or 6 GUI demos in a couple miuntes just blew people away 
in 2001 when I showed it to them. What keeps me here is that there's 
nothing else that's as much fun to work in (for me). It can be frustrating 
too, I won't lie about that, but the benefits so far outwiegh the 
negatives for me, that I hate having to use other languages now. 
I also love the community. I would count some of the people here 
as close friends now, and it's very satisfying to collaborate with 
them, even just on fun little projects.

What *really* excites me, though, is that I think we're still only 
tapping about 5% of REBOL's potential, maybe less. If you write code 
in REBOL like other languages, there are benefits but they aren't 
earth-shattering. When we get to the point that 10% of REBOLers write 
dialects, and 90% of REBOLers use them, and use REBOL as an interchange 
format, then we'll really be taking advantage of REBOL.
Group: Make-doc ... moving forward [web-public]
Great stuff shadwolf! MDP-GUI has a good look and feel to it now. 
A couple of suggestions:

1. The preview pane is out by 40 pixels, page-width: 360 should fix 
2. Full-screen (even as an option) would be good
3. Option to use makedoc2.r instead of make-doc-pro.r

Now that the "proof of concept" seems sound I'll be concentrating 
on the VID emitter with a view to making it MDP complient and more 

ability to directly edit the elements in the preview pane
 I'm working on that, but its a real pane (pardon the pun).

the rendering is slow because its a huge cheat

 - yes, like you I looked at a "live update" but its just too slowwwww. 
 An intermediate solution might be to have a timer that refreshes 
 the preview every few seconds or so.
>> do %mdp-gui-v1.r
Script: "Untitled" (6-Oct-2004)

** Script Error: split-path expected target argument of type: file 

** Where: func [face value][browse join (first split-path config-data/current-file) 
** Near: first split-path config-data/current-file
Ashley thank you very mutch for the tips ;) I will work on special 
adaptation to MDP format requirement on the redering process. Option 
tu use makedoc 2  sure but in this case your cute MD2IDE will be 
deprecated and I  doesn't want that... MDP and MD2 have similar form 
but diferent kind of rendering processs. I don't want to make a monster 
application ... I want to make a quick usefull little GUI to write 
aesyly MDP formated programs with lot of automation like save on 
quit, recent file list, etc...
Graham her you get the patch for this proprlem that allows you to 
not redownload it :
add this code in config-pan: 

btn-cancel "Cancel" [
			either exists?  mdp-config-file [ 
				unview/only config-win 
				if not viewed? main-win [mdp-gui-init]

   ][ alert "It's my first run baby !! ^/ You need to fill properly 
   the config form !!!" ]
MDP-GUI rendering nows feet very more closer the MDP Format allowing 
beatifull doc preview (but processing is slow damn maybe I hace to 
add some kind of progress bar to not bore the user with hangon...)
I prefer a dedicate mode but MD2IDE and MDP-GUI can enritch them 
eatch other ;)
New MDP-GUI version 1.3.4  you can down load it there --> http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=143
MDP-GUI v1.3.4 include a remade IHM a bug correction and the rendering 
of the list of content
and this helps you to see what direction the MDP-GUI project is taking 
I hope this 1.3.4 version will be at your taste. :)
brand new version of MDP-GUI 1.3.6 is available here: http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=151
[MDP-GUI DEV NEWS ] I improved the rendering speed by 300% integrating 
the MDViewer rendering method that ASHLEY created. That new algorithm 
really rocks !!! I had to change the inline formating flags to conserv 
the most speed. I conserv the ashley way to deal with inline marcker 
has HTML tags (e.g: <b>text bold</b>) I adapt ashley's code for all 
little  other différences that exist beetwin MD2 and MDP format. 
Next step is to enhance the toc rendering process. I remade the first 
start up process. I plan to give MDP-GUI.r, make-doc.r, make-doc.txt, 
ms-word.gif, in a single ZIP archive that make easier the release 
and use. As johnatemps says to me people wants to download and use 
and not try to configure the program durring lot of time.
New version of MDP-GUI 1.4.1 can be downloaded here: http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=160
Just a note, I'm getting some free time in the next week and will 
work on MDP. I already have fixed some bugs and will make it more 
MD2 compatible. Further the interface between parser and generator 
will become MD2 compatible so that things like MDP-GUI / MDViewer 
can swap the engine beyond.
MDP-GUI was erased on the fwk the gived link is no more active to 
dl it refere to : http://shadwolf.free.fr/mdp-gui-1-4-1.zipsorry 
for the disturbs...
I'm still trying to understand how to compose my mdp-gui 1.4.1 package 
The Header File value on your MDP-GUI script needs to point to the 
script not the ZIP.  I believe that is your problem...
so ppl now to  dl MDP-GUI 1.4.1 all you need is to append a rebol/view 
console and copy/paste  do http://www.rebol.org/library/public/repack.r
then find in the list MDP-GUI-1-4-1.r all the files in the package
Download/install works like a charm.  Nice job on mdp-gui.
next step to MDP -GUI is to be made using RebGUI and encaped (wrapped) 
 by GREBOX  and a cute little installer for non rebol.org download 
don't know if I could get enaought patience to make an input/rendering 
same window intaface once MDP-GUI interface will be based on rebgui 
thank  to ashley and all the beta testers, contributors, idea teasers 
;) that allow me since november  2004  to heavyly enhance and make 
progress tMDP-GUI ;)
Shame on me, nice job to all working on MD, MDP, GUI, and Ashley's 
MD-Viewer and RebGui.
MDP-GUI Is one person coded but community inspired I love this kind 
of work  ;)
Did some one found a way to have a FAST Rebol editor.  I did remarked 
that the cursor is slowing to a crall on big texts in MDP-Gui.  It 
is also quite slow with VT-editor or ion-pe, or even with this very 
small editor in alt-me, the one with which I write now.  Tcl, for 
example, does have two tk texts widgets (text and C-text) to properly 
handle text.  Could there be a way to have a fast editor in Rebol, 
something that could handle a text of 100-200 pages in a manner that 
is as fluid as something like notepad.  I am a newbee and find MDP-Gui 
to be a nice course on how to play with text rendering.  Although 
I would rather have only one window, and alternate from the editing 
window to its rendered view.  Full window is nicer to write text. 
 Side by side is nicer to compare marked-up text to its rendering, 
but after a while, we know the rendering and simply want the fuss 
a a nicely rendered text.  I am fidling with this idea, but do stumble 
on the editor part.  I dont even know who is the culprit, area or 
the ctx-edit.  If someone has a simple solution to this, he should 
post it.
Normand thank you for your concern about MDP-GUI. AS MDP-GUI main 
author I can say that the one vindow rendering is one of my futur 
goals. By default Area are absolutly unable to handle ritch text 
..  Carl Sassenrath plans to add a new VID widget to do so called 
TDM... (But The double formating maybe very slow). MDP redering format 
pull us to have en extensive use of VID widgets capabilities I'm 
not sure even with TMD we could reach the same level of beauty. I'm 
making some research too on my side to  found a pretty way to transform 
redered widget to editable ones keeping there settings... But so 
far I wasn't able to produce a relevent soution in this issue :)
My actual effort in dev leads me to rebGUI project so MDP-GUI is 
in pause until rebGUI reatch stability then I would make a brand 
new version of MDP-GUI including the RebGUI look&feel. Once all this 
work will be done I could switch back to "One render/input window" 
problem :)
allen Iframe ? and why not java ... are you joking having rendering 
and writing in two panes is yet possible with REBOL/View (see MDP-GUI) 
What I seek for is a merge of both systems Like MS Word But even 
sharper and made Fully in REbol/view code no external call to other 
idions technology :)
Exactly dideC but MDP-GUI yet renderise the documentation in VID 
like mdviewer. Why to see it in rebol/vid simply because it better 
IMHO to have a render preview and the MDP raw format in same window 
I'm close to have ended the MDP-Browser software. Lots of improvements 
have been done and makes it a tool a step forward MDP-GUI.
what is MDP-Browser ? MDP-Browser is a software designed to work 
with IOS server  in a wiki like way. MDP-browser is a merge betwin 
MD-Viewer and  MDP-GUI some kind of nutural son of those two programs. 
It's similar to his parents but entends truelly the capabilities 
of both program.  First of all VID rendering have been improved (bullet 
points  are drawn using effect/Draw and not any more ascii chars), 
Viewed text resizing exist
Group: Parse ... Discussion of PARSE dialect [web-public]
I use parse quite a bit. It's funny, I've never needed the GUI of 
View, but I use parse daily.
Group: MySQL ... [web-public]
mysql problem what does this error mean?

    I am just looking at REBOL and trying to access mysql
    I got this error??
    connecting to:

    ** User Error: ERROR 1251 : Client does not support authentication 
    tocol requested by server; consider upgrading MySQL client
    ** Near: db: open mysql://[rootass-:-127-:-0-:-0-:-1]:3306/mysql
    This the code I am using from rebol document
    title: "Rebol Mini-Text Database with Visual GUI"

    author: "http://reboltutorial.com/blog/rebol-mini-text-database/"
    version: 1.0.0
    do %mysql-protocol.r
    probe first system/schemes
    db: open mysql://[rootass-:-127-:-0-:-0-:-1]:3306/mysql
    insert db {
    DROP TABLE IF EXISTS products;
    CREATE TABLE products (
    name VARCHAR(100),
    version DECIMAL(2, 2),
    released DATE

    INSERT INTO products VALUES ('cheyenne', '1.0', '2007-05-31');
    INSERT INTO products VALUES ('mysql', '1.1', '2007-05-01');
    insert db read %setup.sql ;-- execute a big SQL file
Group: AGG ... to discus new Rebol/View with AGG [web-public]
Yes, GUI work for apps often takes me 75% of my time -- so anything 
to reduce that helps.
But would need better support for "macros". such that the gui-designer 
can directly interact with the code.
Group: Web ... Everything web development related [web-public]
I was thinking of writing a webapp, but I'd rather have View handle 
the GUI lifting.
I just downloaded Serveit .. but it comes up with a gui :(  And if 
I try it in quiet mode, --quiet, it comes up with a license code 
request :(
I've looked at QM but I did not get it. I did not understand what 
it did. Magic seems to provide some basic gui elements that seemed 
like a quick way to build a website. I'll have another look at QM 

QM runs on Cheyenne?
Best MVC example: OSX. The thing is not the separation all speak 
about (Model = Date, View = GUI, Control = App logic) but how to 
get it to work together. And this is (normally) done by passing messages 
between these three.

Like you click a button and a "loadrecord" message is sent to the 
Data part. IIRC the nice thing is, that more than one "function, 
object, ..." can react on such a message.
Yes, I know oscommerce (or xtcommerce which is IIRC a fork). I use 
Rapidweaver for Web-Pages so I would like to integrate all this.

The problem I have is, that all these shop system push you to use 
their layout engine etc. There is none I know, that just does the 
non-gui backend part.
Group: Announce ... Announcements only - use Ann-reply to chat [web-public]
MDP-GUI 1.3.6 AVAILABLE HERE http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=151
Little bug correction NEW MDP-GUI 1.3.6 here http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=152
MDP-GUI version 1.4.0 is out : http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=158
NEW version MDP-GUI 1.4.1 is released !!! to doawload it : http://rebol.dev.fr/view.php?sid=160
MDP-GUI was erased on the fwk the gived link is no more active to 
dl it refere to : http://shadwolf.free.fr/mdp-gui-1-4-1.zipsorry 
for the disturbs...
Apollo 1.4.0 released: http://home.tiscali.dk/john.niclasen/apollo.zip

A lot of new pictures have been released since the last version of 
my Apollo program 2 years ago. Unpack the zip archive and start apollo.r. 
The indexes for apollo 7-17 missions doing the years 1968-1972 will 
be created, the first time, the program is started. The GUI has been 
updated and new features include option to update the indexes at 
any time by the click of a button. The pictures are a collection 
of the pictures released on the website: http://www.apolloarchive.com/
Have fun!
Scroller style with arrows-together option (Amiga style):
do http://anton.wildit.net.au/rebol/gui/demo-ami-scroller.r
Group: SDK ... [web-public]
A lot of what you do will run in R3 too. GUI have some changes, but 
you can go develop final programs in R2 now.
Group: !RebGUI ... A lightweight alternative to VID [web-public]
Latest build available at: http://www.dobeash.com/files/RebGUI-022.zip

Highlights include:

	- Added drop-list, edit-list and auto-fill widgets
	- New splash function added (run %tour.r to see it in action)

 - Window management logic improved (disallows duplicate windows and 
 "sticks" child windows to first)
	- Couple of minor fixes and cosmetic improvements
	- %tour.r has an additional "List" tab

 - Prototype table widget added (run %table-002.r to see it in action)

Known issues

	- spinner and auto-fill widgets need more work
	- edit-feel needs to handle highlight, cut & paste
	- scroller needs more work (resizeable dragger)
	- table needs row selection logic added
	- edit-list needs auto-fill logic added

In progress

	- Improved tab-panel
	- Menu
	- tabbing
	- field input validation (field input masks, etc)
	- list-view (shadwolf)

With regards to "lists", I envision 5 types we need. They are (in 
ascending order of complexity):

 drop-list	- non-editable, single sorted column with single value 
 selection [optimized for < 100 values]

 edit-list	- derived from drop-list but editable with an auto-fill 

 table		- multi-column representation of a DB table; used to create 
 something like a GUI SQL client with single-row selection [< 100,000 

 list-view	- multi-column multi-media content (supports images, URL's, 
 etc); used to create something like a file explorer with single perhaps 
 multi-row selection [<10,000 rows]

 grid		- cell-level addressing and editing supporting simple spreadsheet 
 formulas and formatting [< 1,000 rows]
Ihave an other example of those related calculation method with the 
toc-panel in MDP-GUI and MDP-Viewer. When you click on an entry in 
the toc you have in the viewing pannel the title that appears in 
the middle of the viewing pane and not in the top of the viewing 
pane ...
Is the idea to completely replicate the functionality available in 
VID, to surpass it, or to provide a cut down gui ?
but this can be done with MDP-GUI if MDP-browser is a commercial 
dedicated product
Great resource for GUI & widget inspiration http://www.aci.com.pl/mwichary/guidebook/
I think this may work (not sure, can't test):
sdk?: is-this-sdk? ; <--- need to find out a real flag

set 'edit	do #either [sdk?][#include %rebgui-edit.r][%reb-gui-edit.r]

set 'widgets	do #either [sdk?][#include %rebgui-widgets.r][%rebgui-widgets.r]

set 'requestors do #either [sdk?][#include %rebgui-requestors.r][%rebgui-requestors.r]

set 'display	do #either [sdk?][#include %rebgui-display.r][%rebgui-display.r]
I agree on 'drop-list / 'edit-list usability problem : the list should 
be at least closeable when clicking on the arrow button again - escape 
key isn't enough, as it's a mouse driven GUI.
maybe we should think about a name change? rebface looks a lot like 
"the face inbuild in rebol." rebgui works as "a gui for rebol", but 
Normand I'm glad to see that some of the UI ideas form MDP-GUI have 
been retaked into BibleX ;à
I thought I'd have a go at building an application with RebGUI, and 
I'm starting with an open source electronic medical record.
I'm just building the gui first off 


Help appreciated :)
scaling - cool! But resizing works a bit strange sometimes, especially 
if you lower window size under some acceptable limit .... dunno if 
that one could be automatically calculated or not, but sometimes 
you get destructed (non-functional) gui
But this allows you to resize a window below an invisible threshold 
only to have your resize [partially] ignored when the layout jumps 
back to it's minimum size. I still maintain that setting a realistic 
min-size is not only subjective but the role of the GUI designer 
... if RebGUI tries to infer this setting it will invariably get 
it wrong ("why did it let my title field shrink to less than three 
characters ... everyone knows a one-char field is useless" type of 
neat. got my very simple gui app working in View, and I'm suddenly 
overwhelmed by the urge to try it with RebGUI instead.
ie. the rule can be defined by the user, and the gui allows us to 
specify a rule.
Ashleny, just wondering how complex a GUI you've managed to build 
with the current version.
I use sourceforge - winmerge for windows.  It is a gui diff tool 
that works great and is free.
Group: DevCon2005 ... DevCon 2005 [web-public]
pardon the lousy GUI and a few errors in it, but it's usable for 
Group: rebcode ... Rebcode discussion [web-public]
going nuts as in "I'm having a lot of fun with it"  :-D  the apis 
is pretty complete for most gui and procedural
Group: Tech News ... Interesting technology [web-public]
I want B/W GUI so more CPU cycles can be used for something useful 
Yes. But it was not "Flash stepped in", but  "java  was  kicked out" 
and  flash filled the gap.  Better Gui for designers for nimations 
too. But now its flash instaled everywhere, and people cringe to 
use it for serious  apps.
I'm using the plugin within high-end software web architecture and 
its pretty amazing... doing 3 simultaneous streams of async, on demand 
with interruptions of xfers and background i/o all completely invisible 
to the GUI, (no gui jams)
and the 3d system browser with devices, files and applications all 
mixed into one slick rolling cube on cubes gui.
I don't know something about etoile seems like its not really changing 
the actual workflow of use.  I still sense a "software" in the GUI... 
but I agree its much more pervasive.
and its fully scriptable  :-)  antidote is actually used BY the GUI 
instead of coding many of the things internally... for example, all 
hotkeys are actually within an external file with character and command 
scripts which applied when that key is pressend and no focus is detected.
as brian said, the vast majority of rebol code can be compiled, but 
I also know that 100% of my gui using code cannot, cause of a patch 
in glayout  ;-)
it just loads html and runs it...  providing a gui space, an execution 
space ... all is defined within the html source.  just like a rebol 
We should start to think, how to use various situations to ours advantage 
- e.g. - R3 implemented in JavaScript? (would be slow) R3 core being 
able to use with JavaScript? R3 Core and GUI using Flash/Silverlight? 
R3/View and output generators to Flash/Silverlight/Web (httml, css, 
interestingly, the URL bar looks _exactly_ like one of my earlier 
skin attempts for the R3 GUI :-)
But - our GUI is far from being usable, so native menu or not is 
still preliminary question for R3.
[unknown: 5]:
For example, I don't see it giving me the ability to produce GUI's 
faster or better.
Group: Postscript ... Emitting Postscript from REBOL [web-public]
I wrote a very small one, about 2 kb in size with a GUI. I can't 
remember, but I think it uses Rugby.
Group: Games ... talk about using REBOL for games [web-public]
once i get XWings, XYChains and Swordfish coded ill release the GUI 
etc ;)
I plan to do something in my free time in a 3d engine .. I need that 
it works in a browser so unity seems the most obvious choice, adobe 
director is expensive and probably outdated, stonetrip / shiva seems 
even more IDE/GUI heavy than unity giving me even less controll (although 
I am not 100% sure bcause I haven't digged really deep in any of 
those.) Then there is Java (which has Ardor3d which is very early 
in the making , and jme which is somewhat "out") but starting with 
it would be at a lot more low level than unity and similar game engines, 
with no real docs and tools as far as I can see.
Very interesting. I was burned too few times with GUI based tools 
with no simple representation taht you could programatically or by 
hand edit also.
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