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world-name: r3wp

Group: !REBOL3 Extensions ... REBOL 3 Extensions discussions [web-public]
Oldes:
1-Dec-2010
hm.. I think I understand how it's supposed to work now, but it looks 
it's just a temp solution. Here is the init part for graphics:
words: [
	;gui-metric
    screen-size
    border-size
    border-fixed
    title-size
    work-origin
    work-size
]
;temp hack - will be removed later
init-words: command [
	words [block!]
]
init-words words
Group: !REBOL3 GUI ... [web-public]
Robert:
11-Dec-2010
We have setup official R3-GUI download place: http://www.rm-asset.com/code/downloads/files/r3-gui.r3.zip
Andreas:
11-Dec-2010
Maybe provide a unzipped download for the r3-gui as well? So that 
we can directly DO the url?
nve:
11-Dec-2010
Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

R3 current version: 2.100.110.3.1
It was released on: 2-Nov-2010/3:55:04.875

Your version is current.
>> do %r3-gui.r3

Script: "R3 GUI - load and start" Version: $Id: $ Date: 9-Dec-2010/10:32:04+1:00

>> change-dir %test-framework
== %test-framework

>> list-dir

core-tests.r   cpl_2_100_110_3_1.log         docs/          flags.r	test-framework.r
>> do %test-framework.r
Script: "Untitled" Version: none Date: 16-Jul-2010/13:05:26+2:00
Testing...
file: core-tests.r
LOAD/next removed. Use TRANSCODE.

Done, see the log file: /C/Documents and Settings/striker/Bureau/R3/test-framework/cpl_2_100_110_3_1.log
Total: 1 Succeeded: 0 Failed: 1


Log file :

file: core-tests.r

failed, file parsing unsuccessful
Total: 1 Succeeded: 0 Failed: 1

Why ?
Robert:
11-Dec-2010
This setup will raise the release frequency of R3-GUI a lot as we 
will use automatic scripts to update it on the server.
Andreas:
11-Dec-2010
Nice, direct DO of r3-gui works fine for me (with custom-built A110 
view).
nve:
11-Dec-2010
Juste re-download R3, r3-gui.r3 on another computer...

>> do %r3-gui.r3

Script: "R3 GUI - load and start" Version: $Id: $ Date: 9-Dec-2010/10:32:04+1:00

** access error: cannot open: shape reason: "module not found"

>> upgrade
Fetching upgrade check ...

Script: "REBOL 3.0 Version Upgrade" Version: 1.0.1 Date: 7-Apr-2009
Checking for updates...

R3 current version: 2.100.110.3.1
It was released on: 2-Nov-2010/3:55:04.875

Your version is current.
>>
Andreas:
11-Dec-2010
nve, you need a "view" build of R3 in order for the GUI to work.
Andreas:
11-Dec-2010
You can either build one from the Hostkit yourself, or use e.g. the 
pre-built one provided by Henrik:
http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3.exe
http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3lib.dll
nve:
11-Dec-2010
Ok, loading r3-gui.r3 is ok now.
Still have failed for test-framework.
Aloysius:
11-Dec-2010
I tried to use SciTe editor to run a simple gui script: rebol [] 
 do %r3-gui.r3 view [button]
Andreas:
13-Dec-2010
TomBon: http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/style-browser.r3
xavier:
13-Dec-2010
i just try it and it gives me that >> do %style-browser.r3

Script: "R3 GUI Style Browser" Version: $Id: style-browser.r3 1220 
2010-11-26 13
:18:02Z cyphre $ Date: none
** Script error: guie has no value
** Where: catch either either -apply- do
** Near: catch/quit either var [[do/next data var]] [data]
Pekr:
13-Dec-2010
xavier - see my previous message and Rebolek's explanation. My take 
is,that it sould be adapted to release, or ppl will find GUI highly 
non-working ...
Henrik:
14-Dec-2010
Prior R3 demo was nice app

, from what I believe, that app served the same purpose as the style-browser. 
Having Carl's R3 GUI being more limited, it could be considered more 
bug free than the current version, thus made a better impression.
Henrik:
14-Dec-2010
this is just playing with words, and I think it does not matter

 - sorry, I think you don't understand the importance of the style 
 browser as a *testing* tool rather than as something to show off 
 with.


If we blamed the style browser for the bugs, we'd never finish the 
GUI. I really mean that style browser bugs are irrelevant. Any more 
development on it would be to make testing more thorough. At this 
stage, it's important to build the programs as we want to see them 
working, and if they don't, the underpinnings are to blame and should 
be change to accommodate the needs. That is what's going on now.


We publish the style browser to help users get the quickest possible 
overview of the styles as they are right now, crashing or not. Showing 
off is too early.


It should be possible to have the style browser as part of the demos.
Kaj:
14-Dec-2010
It may be helpful to put a warning in the style browser GUI
Jerry:
14-Dec-2010
I used to develop a Chinese Font Engine in R2 using Win32 API GetGlyphOutline(). 
Now I am trying to do it again in R3, but this time I will get the 
glyth data from OpenType font files directly. Basically, I can read 
the Glyph data now, However, when the glyth has zero contour, my 
OpenType font format parser got error. The OpenType Spec offered 
by Microsoft is not clear to me on this.... Hope I can solve this 
problem soon. I cannot wait to see Chinese Characters in My R3 GUI. 
:-)
Henrik:
16-Dec-2010
There is a demo of above mentioned features here:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/panels-24.r3

It requires the latest sources. I'm not sure a build is made yet.
Ladislav:
16-Dec-2010
%trunk/r3-gui/build/r3-gui.r3 is able to run the test
Henrik:
16-Dec-2010
I've published it here:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui.r3
Pekr:
16-Dec-2010
wow, a progress ... will read it shortly .... guys, I have one question, 
which will most probably get dismissed, but I'll at least try to 
ask:


- when prototyping stuff in console, and e.g. when your gui crashes 
from some reason, I am very used to just "unview". But - in R3 I 
have to do either "unview none" or "unview 'all" (not caring about 
the name of the window)


So my question is - couldn't the aproach be rethought, and old R2 
functionality brought back? Especially "unview 'all" in comparison 
to (imo) more rebolish R2 "unview/all" is non intuitive for me ...
Pekr:
17-Dec-2010
Ladislav - is the solution part of posted r3-gui version from yesterday? 
Or just something which will arrive shortly?
Pekr:
17-Dec-2010
I used it only several times - to initialise GUI automatically, and 
to create a primitive gif-anim player ...
Oldes:
20-Dec-2010
Yes... so we still need the simple example to show it.. best to use 
different group (R3 graphics) as it's not related to GUI.
Oldes:
20-Dec-2010
I would like to give GUI a try, but to be honest, the current public 
state is good only for reviewing, not for participation on the developement. 
I mean... I really don't want to hack one file which has 256kB. So 
I'm asking again, wouldn't it be better to put it into a real source-code 
system (or in case you have one already, which you probably have 
internaly, to create public mirror of it).
Oldes:
20-Dec-2010
I would like to give GUI a try, but to be honest, the current public 
state is good only for reviewing, not for participation on the developement. 
I mean... I really don't want to hack one file which has 256kB. So 
I'm asking again, wouldn't it be better to put it into a real source-code 
system (or in case you have one already, which you probably have 
internaly, to create public mirror of it).
Oldes:
20-Dec-2010
Also I miss the basic functionality in current GUI. Like chance to 
view a simple GOB. For example one of these: http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/view/gobs.html
Henrik:
20-Dec-2010
The GUI is still changing too much for particular blog articles. 
Around on a daily basis I get updates on 5-10 source files, which 
I don't have time to go through, otherwise I would publicize more 
information.
Ladislav:
20-Dec-2010
GUI work log update: currently, the ON-CONTENT actor is being reworked. 
Interface and behaviour are being changed (different arguments, adjusting 
"boundary case behaviour"), some bugs revealed and corrected during 
reworking as well.
Oldes:
20-Dec-2010
And it is related to GUI project as GUI project is the one where 
the draw is implemented as commands.
Henrik:
20-Dec-2010
http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui-src.zip
Pekr:
20-Dec-2010
Maybe that zip archive could be added to the links page for R3 GUI 
project permanently?
Ladislav:
22-Dec-2010
GUI work log update: ON-CONTENT revision done, debugging the changes. 
One of the changes is a removal of the PANEL/FACES block. Reasons:


- data aren't normalized, since the contents of the panel are listed 
both in panel/gob and in panel/faces

- thus, twice as much memory used, and unnecessary maintenance of 
the panel/faces block is necessary

- the not normalized nature was visible anyway, since the order of 
faces was not guaranteed to be the same

- to get the block when needed, it is possible to use a FACES? function 
returning such a block on demand
Cyphre:
23-Dec-2010
New 'X-mas' release of R3-GUI is available for download at http://www.rm-asset.com/code/downloads/

top-level changes:

-smarter face update mechanism
-improved dynamic panel content handling
-internal optimizations and more system-friendly redesign
-cleanup of obsolete code parts

some more detailed notes:


- panels can now contain normal, VISIBLE faces, HIDDEN faces (just 
invisible, but taking the same space as the visible faces), IGNORED 
faces (invisible, and not taking any space), FIXED (visible, but 
not resizing with the panel, having a fixed position and size)

- the ON-CONTENT actors for all panels (HGROUP, VGROUP, VPANEL, HPANEL) 
now are as much compatible with series function as practical, taking 
an integer index, high-level function can take a gob or a face to 
specify the position as well

- Data optimization: FACES attribute removed to not need to store 
and maintain the same information twice, risking the conflicts (they 
were already present, order of faces was not identical)


You can also download the latest R3.exe from our site which contains 
LOAD-GUI that directly loads the actual release. This way you are 
always using the latest R3GUI codebase.


We'll be updating the 'old' documentation soon to be up-to-date with 
our current R3GUI version. So interested developers can start using 
it for real or participate on the project.
Henrik:
23-Dec-2010
Demo is still based on Carl's old GUI, I believe. only LOAD-GUI has 
changed.
Claude:
23-Dec-2010
well some guru could do this job and show us bests practices with 
load-gui !
Gregg:
23-Dec-2010
Thanks GUI team!
Oldes:
23-Dec-2010
I mean in R3 gui.
Henrik:
24-Dec-2010
http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui-src.zip

Updated to latest sources and a build is now inside as well.
Robert:
25-Dec-2010
+1 FACES?


What would a logic mean here? That there are faces? Well, it's a 
GUI thing... if than maybe FACE? could be ambigous.
nve:
25-Dec-2010
I have two questions about R3 GUI : 
* do you have a demo script ? 

* do you have the same design has shown by Carl in march http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/gui/guide.html
?
Ladislav:
25-Dec-2010
No, Steeve, I am saying, that you do not have the simpler version 
you are proposing, since that version *was* causing crashes of the 
GUI.
Pekr:
25-Dec-2010
Ladislav - as for docs - will you update rebol.com docs, or RMA's 
own docs? I mean - is this gui endorsed as an official version by 
Carl? I hope so, or the confusion will continu, unless Carl removes 
reference to old docs too ...
Ladislav:
25-Dec-2010
Steeve, the function is as safe as I need it to be. (the "standard" 
GUI needs to work)
xavier:
25-Dec-2010
hello.  I got to run the R3 gui and got some troubles : i use the 
r3-a110-3-1(1).exe and the r3-guihttp://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui.r3
and run this : do %r3-gui.r3 and got this in return :
xavier:
25-Dec-2010
>> do %r3-gui.r3

Script: "R3 GUI - load and start" Version: $Id: $ Date: 9-Dec-2010/10:32:04+1:00

** access error: cannot open: shape reason: "module not found"

>> import %r3-gui.r3
** Script error: datatype assertion failed for: spec/version
** Where: assert -apply- make catch case -apply- apply import
** Near: assert/type [
    spec object!
    body block!
    mixins [o...

>>
xavier:
25-Dec-2010
** access error: cannot open: shape reason: "module not found"

>> import %r3-gui.r3
** Script error: datatype assertion failed for: spec/version
** Where: assert -apply- make catch case -apply- apply import
** Near: assert/type [
    spec object!
    body block!
    mixins [o...

>>
Oldes:
25-Dec-2010
It would be good to have somethink like GUI/base which could be used 
to make micro guis - as a platform for own guis.
BrianH:
25-Dec-2010
The 'data field only refers to a face object in this GUI. It doesn't 
have to refer to a face, or even an object at all. It really is a 
generic data field.
BrianH:
25-Dec-2010
It might be possible that the GUI will only be used by safe code, 
so it wouldn't need the kind of hardening that the module system 
and mezzanines got. There are other ways to make things safeish, 
in theory. And code injection attacks aren't quite as bad as they 
could be if the security permissions were user-specific. Still, I'm 
in the habit now of looking at code as if I wanted to attack it :)
Pekr:
28-Dec-2010
hehe, what is that? :-)

>> do-events
A mystery GUI event?
Henrik:
28-Dec-2010
that happens when no event handler is found, which a bare GOB would 
not have:

; Obtain face or handler object, do event handling:
		either all [
			obj: event/window/data
			obj: select obj 'handler
		][
			;print ["Do-event" event/type "for:" obj/name]
			event: obj/do-event event
		][
			print "A mystery GUI event?"
			halt
		]
Pekr:
28-Dec-2010
DideC: to progress, please use the solution I outlined: http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/view/gobs.html#section-13
- as you can see, it was supposed to work under Carl's GUI, but it 
somehow broke with further developments ...
Pekr:
28-Dec-2010
Henrik: I get crashes of R3 when doing following:

>> do %r3-gui.r3

>> do %panels-21.r3 ; close a window, and do the same example again 
- it takes 2-3 runs to crash the R3
Pekr:
28-Dec-2010
Win Vista, 32-bit. RMA A110 build, tried with downloaded and also 
on-line r3-gui.r3 populated using load-gui function. Do the script 
once, press some button, close it, do the script the second time, 
press the button - crash ...
Pekr:
28-Dec-2010
It seems that the memory can't be recalled back. I just watch task 
list, and I can see that running R3 takes some 2.4 MB, doing an %R3-gui.r3 
goes to some 4.8 MB, doing %panels-21.r3 starts at 7.9, but slowly 
grows to 8.8 MB, pressing some buttons/tabbing/resizing, grows the 
memory consumption to 11.2MB (why? ), closing the window does not 
return the memory back (maybe correct, as the window is just "hidden", 
but still interanlly exists?)


I wonder, if there would be any possibility to "unload" window (layout) 
and/or even to unload the gui?
DideC:
28-Dec-2010
My problem : solved in A96 by doing 'load-gui first !
Henrik:
1-Jan-2011
Guys, time to crank up the volume and build a concrete roadmap for 
the GUI. I have a suggestion to further accelerate the development 
of the GUI: RM Asset will over time require some specific, but complex 
styles, that the community will need as well. We are developing a 
SCRUM tool, which you will need to use as a basis for discussions 
and development of these styles. Consider it also training to become 
a good style developer. For any needs, Cyphre, Bolek, Ladislav and 
I will be available to extend the UI base as needed to create the 
styles mentioned below. We also provide examples, training and help.


Many of these styles are focused for development of particular types 
of applications that open many, small windows inside a large work 
area for flexible construction of data analysis tools and other traditional 
Windows or Linux applications.


It could be a combination of how graphics shader networks are built 
(though without the need for zooming), to regular multi-document 
management. The ultimate goal is to build styles that allow a highly 
user configurable multi-document GUI to be described, using only 
the R3 GUI dialect and some helper functions that we already have.

These styles are generic enough to be usable in plenty of apps.

Inspirations for window arrangements:


http://houdini.dreamerzstudio.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/reflectiveShaderNetwork.jpg
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/docview/TabbedMDI/TabbedMDI.gif

Inspiration for segmented area management:


http://www.solidsmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/modo_501_RayGL_sample_002.jpg
http://jedit.sourceforge.net/jedit-snap-12.png

A list of general styles that definitely are needed:


- Style for doing multi-document window management, using various 
arrangements, window linking features, as borrowed from apps like 
Photoshop.

- Style for segmented area management, editable by users, for arranging 
tool areas, view areas. Segments are adjustable in size. Inspiration 
is JEdit and Modo.
- Multi-document window style, for use in window management style
- Tool window style, for use in window management style

- Tear-off style for toolbars and tool windows, for use in window 
management style

- Regular Windows-style menu bar with submenus, also for right-click 
popup menus.

More specific styles that will be needed later:


- High-performance style for graphing points and curves in a coordinate 
system, with zooming and panning.
- Gannt chart style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gannt_Chart
- Harvey Ball style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Balls
- Year calendar style
- Month calendar style
- Week calendar style
- Day calendar style

- MacOSX style tag field: http://kitara.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/31.png

- Console style for input and listing results. This could eventually 
grow into the base for a View based R3 console.

- Highly ergonomic numeric input styles, that support unit conversion, 
inline math.

The question is where to start and what fits with you.


The time table is simply ASAP, and preferrably want some results 
within the next 2 months.


If you are planning R3 apps soon, it would be a good idea to have 
a look at the list to see where you may be able to contribute, as 
the GUI moves to beta status. RM Asset needs to spend time building 
end-user apps for R3 and the GUI is becoming ready, except for the 
above mentioned styles.
Oldes:
1-Jan-2011
First of all you should provide a doc how to stylize basic gui items 
like button, slider, etc.
Oldes:
1-Jan-2011
Btw... the main problem I see is, that current R3 is not able load 
PNG24 image. If I would like to do own GUI, and or game in Rebol, 
I would like to use semitransparent images. (I know that there is 
a lot of people who don't like bitmaps, but I see bitmap usage useful). 
I can load any image to Rebol using ImageMagick, but that is not 
a way we want to go... IM is too large to be used as common Rebol 
way how to deal with basic images.
Oldes:
1-Jan-2011
But the missing doc for the gui is also big issue for me (but it 
was already promised by Cyphre to provide it)
Robert:
1-Jan-2011
The thing is, the more speed we gain, the faster all this stuff will 
become useable by all of us. And, it's the necessary basics that 
need to be done to make R3 useable for GUI development.
Henrik:
2-Jan-2011
New http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui-src.zip


This one seems not to be as stable with the tests, and the style 
browser won't run, but offering it anyway.

The old version from 24-dec-2010 for diff is available at:

http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui-src-002.zip
Henrik:
2-Jan-2011
Plan: The plan at first is to prioritize what styles mentioned above 
should be written first. It's not a complex roadmap.


Docs: will have to update the status on those, but some are available 
in the r3-gui-src.zip file.
BrianH:
2-Jan-2011
The host kit should be synced at reasonably stable checkpoints. That 
way the GUI people are free to experiment, and people who are working 
on hosts that don't need a GUI or are using a different one can have 
a base that doesn't change as often and is a little more reliable.
BrianH:
2-Jan-2011
Right. Carl has been focusing on core issues for the last 3 releases, 
while the mostly unrelated GUI issues have been worked on by RMA. 
This was the best approach for 108-110, but we are due to make one 
of those checkpoints soon IMO.
Robert:
2-Jan-2011
We release a binary R3 with our stuff so that you all can use the 
RMA R3-GUI.
Kaj:
2-Jan-2011
I have to say, it's gonna be pretty hard to port the GUI to other 
systems without the source
BrianH:
2-Jan-2011
And for a couple months or so before then he didn't touch the host 
kit or GUI. That is what "focusing on core development" means.
BrianH:
2-Jan-2011
Not defending. We gotta do what we gotta do. I was there for a lot 
of the core development phase and involved with most of it, and it 
had almost nothing to do with the GUI or host kit. It was a major 
change that required a huge amount of work by Carl and me, probably 
the most extensive core change in the entire R3 project so far. We 
were glad that the GUI and host kit were being worked on separately 
so we could focus on this.
BrianH:
2-Jan-2011
And by separately, I mean that even the GUI isn't really yet benefiting 
from the new module system. It's more than just syncing code.
Henrik:
3-Jan-2011
Roadmap: Looks much harder to put together than I thought, due to 
varying stability/completeness issues with some basic styles. Will 
get back to this in a few weeks. In the meantime, releases of the 
GUI source will continue as normal. Cranking down the volume again....
Pekr:
3-Jan-2011
Are styles like tabs, grid, tree-view any close to release? Those 
are fundamental to any serious (mainly DB related) GUI developments 
.... I am asking, because I know that you kind of worked on something 
...
Henrik:
3-Jan-2011
There are many missing parts and a lot of bugfixes and changes that 
I know very little about, since I don't work with the lower level 
stuff. Some of the styles are already begun internally and it's possibly 
not a good idea to include them on the roadmap as community projects.

Also with the SCRUM tool, it probably needs to be finished, before 
we can tell what else is missing and that will not be a community 
project.


Each part mentioned above really needs to be done, but it was a lot 
less clear to me what exactly is ready in the GUI to do those things 
until some analysis today.
jocko:
7-Jan-2011
is not it possible to keep the compatibility with the Carl's demo 
and gui, which achieved a rather good level of usability up to A94, 
and which were rather well documented ? From this time, where alternative 
gui's were launched, we have nothing, apart from low level graphics 
programming, with almost no documentation.
jocko:
7-Jan-2011
My question is asked to the R3-GUI team and also to Carl
Oldes:
7-Jan-2011
Shadwolf said: "...so your idea of a working rebol community is a 
rebol community with 10 R3/GUI because 10 of us has different ideas 
on the topic."

I must say I have no problem having 10 or more R3-guis... it's always 
better than having none. Of course it would be nice to have at least 
the core shared, but you will not have it if you even don't try to 
propose something.
Henrik:
7-Jan-2011
The idea for the roadmap was to remove the need for RM Asset to do 
these styles ourselves later, when we are busy writing R3 end user 
apps, otherwise it could take a good 1-2 years before they would 
be publicized. The roadmap would be shaped around which styles are 
needed and which basic features need still to be implemented in the 
GUI.
Henrik:
7-Jan-2011
Pekr, I can't be sure at this time, because currently the styles 
are worked on via immediate need for fixes for things like the SCRUM 
tool, which is partially why I couldn't complete the roadmap. It's 
probably fair to say that the styles currently present in the style 
browser will be completed by RM Asset, but that may change.


What I imagine is that some of these styles that I mentioned will 
be comprehensive, long running separate, autonomous projects. A style 
like graph will need a ton of features, possibly separated into substyles 
and it would hopefully not depend on anything, but low-level features 
in the GUI system. Someone like Maxim could do this as he knows how 
to do high performance graphics. A windowing system can also be run 
as a separate project. Each project could be immediately stored on 
github.


RM Asset can do everything ourselves, but in the end, this will just 
take much, much longer, perhaps an additional year, which affects 
everyone interested in the GUI.
Robert:
7-Jan-2011
And, I don't see a problem if we have 2-3 different implementaitons 
of the same style. First, the code can be merged, we all learn more 
which patterns are good for style development and the whole GUI will 
be much better challanged from different POVs.
Cyphre:
7-Jan-2011
We'll be releasing new version of R3GUI later today with the docs 
Ladislav mentioned.

Unfortunately I had not enough spare time to update the old 'gui 
demo'. So now a question to all who cried here :) Is there any volunteer 
who will try to convert the demo? I think this is great oportunity 
to:
-learn how the new version works

-found possible bugs and issues and report back to RMA team or even 
provide fixes
-give back something usable to comunity

So anyone interested?...
shadwolf:
7-Jan-2011
Oldes  thank you for quoting me outside it's contexte to serve your 
purpose that quote is  a reply to Kaj proposition to do my own R3-GUI.
shadwolf:
7-Jan-2011
this quote implies any comunity work have to be based on a first 
step which seek the compromised best solution... which fundamental 
step wasn't done with the R3/GUI since their purpose is not to manage 
a  compromised vision of  R3/GUI edicted by the community but it's 
just to implement on top of the design edicted by Carl. In the actual 
design the least I can says is that you will need at least to do 
the work three time to support Win32API , X11 API and Quartz API.. 
+  any other windowed api. Knowing you are only 5 guys in RMA is 
it stupid to notice that and from this try to get the better solution 
the one that will give you best chance of success ?
shadwolf:
7-Jan-2011
the point here is the dialect edicted by carl can be adapted to any 
other library so why not considere taking a library already ported 
to the 3 main OS. Wich we would have the full sourcing and the would 
even in a shrinked version of it to save us the pain to do X times 
the work X being the number of  OS we want the R3/GUI on ...  and 
this  will too avoid us compatibility issues...
Oldes:
7-Jan-2011
And I thoght the reason why we make gui in REBOL is not to need different 
gui for each system. I totaly don't understand your toughts.
shadwolf:
7-Jan-2011
do for a R3/GUI we need the whole GTK+ or the Whole QT ? first of 
all lest analyse the way R3/GUI interface to win32 API it doesn't 
use that whole api specification it's limited to the ground management 
and rendering fonctions.
Group: !REBOL3 Host Kit ... [web-public]
Maxim:
19-Oct-2010
one thing which is sorely missing in the general GUI concepts of 
text is flowing text from boxes to boxes.
  

multi-columns are an example of a simple floating text box implementation... 
maybe you could go all the way and add support for arbitrary text 
boxes which flow with content from "previous" boxes when text reaches 
the end of the previous box?
Pekr:
20-Oct-2010
Cyphre - I am not sure if we should accept CSS document model here, 
as users/designers are used to it? I tried to search for some typography 
vocabulary, but there is not much in it:

http://www.proximasoftware.com/fontexpert/terms/


Then I also looked into MS Word (well, not the best DTP option, I 
know :-), but I am somehow satisfied, how paragraph styling is done 
in it, and I find it pretty much flexible. So few of my notes:

PAGE:
--------
- text-gob - let's say it equals to page


- margin should allow to set 4 sides, as is with CSS and even DTP 
systems. DTP system talk about margin as about the space to the edge 
of the paper. I don't know, how such terms are used in conjunction 
to R3 GUI, but we should somehow find-out, how to not be confusing. 
But - having just a single marign is not imo sufficient.


- origin should replace scroll, and it should mean offset. But looking 
into VID2, origin just did what you propose - but I don't like it, 
as it required us to introduce offset to VID2.

PARA:


- indent - e.g. MS Word defines: indent-left, indent-right (kind 
of creates margins/padding, if you relate to CSS terms), then they 
have indent-special - first-line | "pre-indent" (-first-line,not 
much usefull). It also has check-box for "mirror setting", which 
changes indent-left to inner, and indent-right to outer (dunno what 
it is good for)


- spacing - top-space | bottom-space - but here, it is not inner 
space in paragraph, it is more of an indentation between paragraphs. 
In other words - I can imagine calling it even padding (as we are 
used from VID2, we used space there for the auto-spacing). It allows 
you to set, that it will not add space in between two paragraphs 
of the same style. It also allows you to set spacing for rows - either 
by float, or by multiples, 1,5 rows, double, the-least-possible (pixels), 
exactly (pixels)


- paging - some stuff to set in regards to paragraph and paging, 
as linking of paragraphs, linking of lines

- runaround settings (dunno if correct english term)
Maxim:
1-Nov-2010
Air probably is better (more polished) than their own gui architecture. 
 though they might have had really cool opportunities if they used 
elate instead.  things like flipping an application's gui from one 
tablet to another.

nothing prevents them from adding elate later.
ssolie:
4-Nov-2010
I didn't think I would need it for handling gui events
Pekr:
9-Nov-2010
Henrik - you better hurry up with GUI, so that Amigans can have some 
useful demos :-)
Henrik:
9-Nov-2010
We are busy going 1.0 on an application these days, so I'm not working 
very much on the GUI. I can however tell that Rebolek and Cyphre 
are hard at work. :-)
ssolie:
15-Nov-2010
I'm trying to run the hello world example at http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/gui/guide.html

Here is what happens when I try load-gui:
>> load-gui
i
Fetching GUI...
GUI Version: 0.2.1

(Developer test GUI theme)

** Script error: expected command! not font

 ** Where: size-text font-char-size? make make-text-style parse fontize 
 do do either load-gui

** Near: size-text gob

Is this a host-kit issue or ?
Pekr:
15-Nov-2010
this is old Carl's gui. I am not sure it works, most probably it 
does not. Go into R3 GUI group here, and find some of Henrik's links 
and download RM Assets' GUI
Pekr:
15-Nov-2010
http://94.145.78.91/files/r3/gui/r3-gui.r3
GrahamC:
15-Nov-2010
Yeah .. old GUI code
ssolie:
15-Nov-2010
Thanks guys. GUI seems to function now after changing the fonts. 
I left a comment in REBOL3 GUI. Now I need to make the buttons actually 
work (more event work to do).
Maxim:
15-Nov-2010
yeah, the ARM would allow us to use R3 on iphone and possibly Android, 
though the Android API is JAVA so it might be complicated to link 
into the GUi and stuff.
Pekr:
29-Nov-2010
If you want just to try A110, go to REBOL3 GUI group here, there's 
a link to download a binary and dll .... we will have to wait for 
Carl to resurface and correct the release, or even better - to merge 
the changes to official location ...
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