[Syllable] The free desktop and server operating system family
Kaj: What is better --- to take latest sources of Syllable, or to take stable network sources? I am hesitating
That's re: network stack
I think I will now work with stable ones
If you have only one Syllable system, it's best to use the stable 0.6.6 release
However, if you can have multiple installations, development work is best done on the development build. The kernel headers have changed a lot, which affects the source code of system modules
The development build lacks some parts, though. Most notably cURL, so that the Webster browser doesn't work
If you want to install a development build, you may want to wait a week. I intend to have a new one for the Syllable Conference coming weekend
We don't have a Syllable architecture diagram. It would be nice to have one, but unfortunately, I have many other priorities. However, much BeOS documentation applies to Syllable, especially the overall architecture. Haiku keeps a lot of such documentation, such as the BeBook
I prefer to work with stable version first, to not encounter clashes with newborn bugs. If I get to anything working, I would like to merge it with the development version. So I will not currently install a development version. I have one computer with four hard drives and multiple partitions, one QEMU Syllable installation, and one native HDD Syllable installation.
newborn bugs --- i.e. those bugs caused by other developers.
I've tested Haiku. 1) It does not have pppoe out of the box, and afair on its forums there is an unfulfilled request for pppoe. 2) Haiku uses VESA mode on my machine, supports more modes than Syllable, and is MUCH MUCH faster re: windows dragging with mouse than Syllable. Haiku reports: VESA version = 3.0, capabilities 1. Haiku allows for 1280x1024x32 mode while Syllable only allows 1280x800 mode and shows a black screen in 1280x1024 mode.
Haiku is fast in VESA mode, Syllable is extemely slow re: windows dragging with mouse in vesa mode.
evgeniy, have you looked to minix3 too?
not yet. at my plans there's plan9 and inferno, too
looked at inferno OS. All is bytecode-compiled, therefore rubbish.
Plan9 is interesting.
I think Plan9 is now forked into Front9.
Minix3. wikipedia: "The main uses of the operating system are envisaged to be embedded systems and education, such as universities or the OLPC XO-1 laptop." --- not very intreresting goals for me.
plan9front is the name, sorry
My preference are fast FOSS desktop OSes.
RTOS are also interesing for the abovementioned intent but currently are way above my head.
microkernel architecture and selfhealing. perhaps the real hurd? ;-)
self-healing is one important property to study; yes.
but microkernels are unavoidable. everything will have them with time.
Processors will evolve to provide a fast zero-copy read-only safe access to kernel's memory for usermode processes.
Yes, Haiku's VESA driver is known to be fast. It could be interesting to port it to Syllable
BTW What areas are strong in Syllable over Haiku and in Haike over Syllable?
They're quite alike and their development state is also quite alike. I can't really list all the details, as I only test Haiku once every few years or so, when they make a new alpha release
What I consider the biggest differentiator is that I have been pushing Syllable to use REBOL like languages for many years. Red programs can run on it, Boron is included, soon REBOL 3 (now on the live CD) and the packager is written in ORCA
And of course, I created Syllable Server, an extra Linux companion that Haiku doesn't have
And Kaj, now honestly you can tell me (decide for yourself, as this group is web public), why some ppl (or it's actually just one person) blames you from demotivating others? I always wonder, how such a thing as REBOL can make core developers to leave? What do you think about the topic? (not neccessary belonging into vent)
I expect Vanders and eventually others leaving projects, just because they had different priorities in life?
As for Syllable vs Haiku - I am not sure those can be compared, community wise. Feature wise maybe, but I expect Haiku community being vital,no? On the other hand, as for all the alternative OS developmens - what is their target? Just a hobby? With tonnes of mobile devices out there, is there any chance they can find their commercial niche?
That's a very long story. I can't speak for the motivation of the Haiku developers, and I can't predict the future of Syllable, so I won't try
As to how trolls are born, as you suspect, people left the project for different priorities, and for many different reasons
People leave volunteer projects all the time, and it's very easy for a troll to make it seem like it has something to do with the people remaining. Suffice it to say that this is motivated by their own feelings of inferiority, and far beside the truth
I'm releasing a new Syllable Desktop development build tomorrow. Here's a torrent download:
Here's the development files pack, needed for compiling software:
REBOL 3 is now in there, as on the live CD, including my cURL binding. I upgraded Boron to the latest version. ORCA is also still in there, for the Syllable package manager. I also added Fossil and many other components
The Red/System compiler is written in REBOL 2 which I don't think runs on Syllable desktop. Some work would probably needed even if REBOL 2 is there.
Yes, there's no R2, but if there were, Red/System would work. It will be included in the next Syllable Server
If Red/System takes a long time to be rewritten in Red, it might be an option to get it to run on R3, so it would run on Syllable Desktop
Is that particularly difficult?
ie. are the differences between R2 and R3 that great ?
Since Red/System has its own struct! library for R2/Core, I think it should be doable to port it to R3, which also lacks struct! (it's there, but somehow unimplemented)
Not sure I want to spend time on it, because Red is next in the planning. But if you're looking to help... :-)
The announcement is now here: