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World: r4wp

[!REBOL3] General discussion about REBOL 3

Oh, I was getting it mixed up with the recent successful IDE launch 
on Kickstarter. Let me check.
OK, so it's a single-language IDE aimed primarily at the education 
market, still with a nice-looking GUI if not as modern, with an appeal 
based on Apple-fan nostalgia for HyperCard. That's a tougher sell, 
but since it's education market you can get away with GPL/commercial, 
and since it's Apple-nostalgia you can raise that much money from 
merely thousands of investors instead of the millions that you'd 
need if you were going for a less-well-off target market. Makes sense, 
but it's still nice to see.
(Sorry, can't edit here) millions -> many tens of thousands
I helps that it is an established commercial product for the development 
of mobile apps. People still buy tools for mobile app development, 
though GPL/commercial development programming languages are still 
pretty rare now even there.
Looks like we have the education market to blame for the GPL/commercial 
model. I wish them luck.
Brian, maybe you were thinking of LightTable
It also did pretty well.
Yup, that was it.
Oh, LiveCode specifically makes the apps you make with it GPLv3 unless 
you buy the commercial version. Education market...
Or just buy the product.
Livecode is a great tool - the values remind me a low  of what made 
REBOL attractive years ago.  It's just a really productive and well 
designed tool, easy to use, powerful, cross platform (iOS, Android, 
Windows, Mac, Linux, server), it's SIMPLE and geared towards getting 
work accomplished.  That's it's only goal, and the company has always 
tried to make good real-world choices about productivity.  And they're 
keeping the system modern and relevent.  The REBOL community would 
be helped by watching what they do...
low -> lot
Well, we can't follow their business model, but there is a lot of 
other stuff we can learn from them.
As good as REBOL is it could use a good IDE environment.  AmigaVision 
comes to mind.  I would be interested to see whether some large chunks 
of change were invested to put them over the top.  Right now R3 needs 
a message. What makes it special and valuable. What vision does it 
conjure up.
As great as Livecode is, REBOL's language model is still better, 
simpler, more powerful.
It's got more potential
I recently put this up:  http://easiestprogramminglanguage.com
But has it got the momentum?
I think it still can.  Hypercard was dead many years ago.
Android will help.
I'm interested in putting some marketing muscle into promoting it 
- or very likely RED.
The business model incompatibility was the only criticism I had - 
the product looks good, with a lot we could learn from and possibly 
do better. I'm not a marketing guy though, just a social analyst, 
so I can't help on the message.
If I can make some money teaching REBOL lessons, there may be an 
income model for me to pursue.
I've been doing some work to clarify the potential markets.  Just 
doing it part time now, but I think there's real potential.
Kids, Non-Programmers, Entrepreneurs, other education markets - a 
lot of the same covered by Livecode, actually.
I think eduction is a great market for REBOL.  Net Logo actually 
did well in education.  If Education is the goal a great IDE is the 
place to start.  Something like a high quality layout.r or AmigaVision.
I'd support that.
I personally don't think it's necessary.  I want to keep REBOL as 
light as possible.
But tools that make it even easier, without bloat - that could only 
The IDE would be an App that could even be sold.
There you go - a potential income model.
We need more entrepreneurs in this community.
And maybe 10-20 more gurus.
Hypercard worked because it had a very simple IDE approach.  Power 
users became proficient at scripting and teachers shared their cards.
The approach needs to provide tools so easy you can layout an app 
as easily as making a powerpoint presentation, but with the power 
underneath to do absolutely anything.
I'd be willing to bet I could net $100000 next year teaching REBOL, 
no matter what happens with the language and tools.  Just using them 
as they stand.
I already know I can sell the benefits.
In a classroom, imagine if the "powerpoint" allowed students to connect 
their smart phones to the presentation and control aspects of a weather 
simulation, or control a point on a Cartesian coordinate plane.  
The trick is to make this so easy to do that teachers can do it like 
they make power points.
Some teachers will want to do more and they will begin to learn how 
to write scripts.
Styles like a Cartesian plane could be added as someone makes them. 
 This is how hypercard became so popular.  People used hypercard 
who never made a card of thier own.
That's analagous to using a dialect.
With smartboards in most classrooms, the possibilities are really 
Yes it is.  Now we're getting a bit technical in a learning sciences 
sense.  One of the things that makes a classroom such a rich learning 
environment is the presence of resources that mediate learning. They 
provide a medium through which learning activities can take place.
I think a little funding would go a long, long way towards bringing 
REBOL back up to speed, and back into a relevant and competitive 
Chalkboards, textbooks, paper and pencil, etc. are all technologies 
that can mediate learning.
Spreadsheets, calculators, and lab equipment have been used effectively.
Powerpoint is one of those things that really doesn't do much mediating 
because it lacks interaction.  All it needs is a REBOL back end to 
connect the students and make it interactive, especially if it can 
also be used in small groups.
Yet everybody uses it.
More of this sort of discussion needs to take place in this community. 
 So much of the past few years here has been dominated by quibling 
about language details, instead of business potential.
The key to all successful mediation seems to be interactivity, the 
ability to "relate" through the medium.