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World: r4wp

[#Red] Red language group

DocKimbel
17-May-2013
[7878x3]
what kind of GUI is Android using?
 Its own one. See the Android.* classes in Android docs.
Contacts access: it's too early to write Android-specific code as 
long as we can't test it.
Another question - would it be possible to create JAVA function on 
Red side, wrapping the sourcecode? Think inlining of ASM in C, or 
inlining of R/S code in Red?


No, the Red/Java bridge has nothing in common with ASM/C or R/S in 
Red. The bridge does not compile to Java nor does it produce Java 
source code. It just manipulates the JVM content at runtime using 
Java reflection abilities through JNI.
Pekr
18-May-2013
[7881x3]
yes, my question was rather naive, sorry. I realised later, that 
during the compile time, Red or R/S would have to understand JAVA 
code, so in order to support such feature, we would have to have 
java compiler available ....
Working in Android Studio a bit, looking into structures, what does 
it support, etc., I can't foresee, what our aproach is going to be, 
so lookinf forward to it. E.g. the IDE generates GUI definitions 
into XML files, ditto various configs, translations. So - what I 
expect is that you create basid .apk with certain featureset, and 
from that on, it will be manipulated from Red side. Justo wondering, 
if we will be able to dynamically generate UI elements, etc? Or will 
you suggest ppl to use your basic .apk, do certain work in Android 
Studio, and the supporting backend in Red? Or is your idea that ppl 
should not need to eventually touch sw like Android Studio?
sorry again, if questions are not much accurate ....
DocKimbel
18-May-2013
[7884x2]
For what I plan, you will not need anything else than Red (and eventually 
Red IDE) in order to produce Android apps. You won't need to have 
JDK installed.
Dynamically generate UI elements: yes, of course.
Kaj
22-May-2013
[7886]
Thanks for store-bodies?. :-)
DocKimbel
22-May-2013
[7887x2]
Yep, that might close a security hole for your TryRed I guess. You 
can also now build true closed-source software using Red. ;-)
BTW, I have found an issue with global variables initialization in 
PIC mode. It works fine for PIC executables, but PIC library will 
crash. I'm working on fixing it...
Kaj
22-May-2013
[7889]
There's a fundamental complaint among Android developers that you 
can't protect your apps against cracking, unlike on iOS, where Objective 
C apps are compiled. Petr showed how easy it is to decompile Android 
Java apps. With Red and the Java bridge, you can reach the same security 
on Android as native iOS apps. This could be an important marketing 
feature for Red
DocKimbel
22-May-2013
[7890]
Interesting point!
Kaj
22-May-2013
[7891]
I'm not sure how it has shifted by now, but a few years ago, when 
Android was already balancing the market share with iOS, Apple still 
had 99% share of all money collected from mobile apps, due to such 
issues
Andreas
22-May-2013
[7892]
Until someone writes a decompiler for Red :)
DocKimbel
22-May-2013
[7893]
Yep, that's far from impossible, but Java is much easier to decompile 
anyway. ;-P
Kaj
22-May-2013
[7894]
That's going to be hard. A lot of information will be lost in compilation, 
especially for Red/System code and especially when the compilers 
will do optimisations
Andreas
22-May-2013
[7895]
Eventually, it will be harder than it would be at the moment.
DocKimbel
23-May-2013
[7896x2]
I've fixed several issues related to PIC mode for shared libraries, 
now the Red/Java bridge runs fine on Linux too.
Works fine on Mac OS X too (using `java -d32 bridge`).
DocKimbel
24-May-2013
[7898x2]
Does anyone have an armhf (non-Raspbian) distro installed where we 
can do some Red binaries tests?
On my Raspbian distro, ldd on any Red binaries returns "not a dynamic 
executable" error. I suspect a local setup issue, but I would like 
to see if it works or not on different armhf installs.
Bo
24-May-2013
[7900]
I have Arch Linux on Raspberry.
DocKimbel
24-May-2013
[7901]
Can you try a `ldd` on any Red[/System] binary?
Kaj
24-May-2013
[7902x2]
I found the same problem, and several others, yesterday on BodhiLinux 
for Raspberry
My impression is that there are regressions
Bo
24-May-2013
[7904]
I'll try to remember when I get back home in front of one of my Raspberries.
Kaj
24-May-2013
[7905]
I can't get OpenGL to work on it if you don't :-)
Bo
24-May-2013
[7906]
Oh, yeah.  I have my son's graduation ceremony tonight so I won't 
be able to look at it until tomorrow night.
Kaj
24-May-2013
[7907]
Congratulations :-)
Andreas
24-May-2013
[7908]
shared-lib.reds test works on armhf Arch for me.
DocKimbel
24-May-2013
[7909]
It seems it's either a local issue on my RPi installation or a Raspbian 
issue. Will check that in the next days.
Marco
25-May-2013
[7910]
I have written a simple R/S program that simply writes a text file, 
and when I start it from Windows it always opens a shell even if 
there is no "print-ing". How can avoid it?
DocKimbel
25-May-2013
[7911x3]
-t Windows
(compiler command-line option)
Playing with Eclipse for Android, it takes about 360MB of RAM when 
running...looks like a bad joke, but it's not.
Kaj
25-May-2013
[7914x3]
Impossible, nobody needs more than 640 KB
That would be a good slogan for Red: "Nobody needs more than 640 
KB"
>> stats
== 569344
Pekr
25-May-2013
[7917]
:-)
Henrik
25-May-2013
[7918]
This might solve all IT problems: "Nobody gets more than 640 kb"
Kaj
25-May-2013
[7919]
You can do that with Genode
Pekr
25-May-2013
[7920]
Doc - have you tried new Android Studio instead of Eclipse?
DocKimbel
25-May-2013
[7921x2]
Pekr: nope, but it doesn't matter much which IDE I'm using as it's 
just for prototyping.
640KB sounds like a good upper limit for Red. ;-)
Arnold
25-May-2013
[7923]
:D 
I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.
 -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943. 
(There are at least 5 computers that run Red code nowadays??)
Kaj
25-May-2013
[7924]
Yes, under my desk
DocKimbel
25-May-2013
[7925]
After several hours of fight, I finally got my first non-crashing 
Red apk running on Android. :-) Now let's see how JNI is doing...
Kaj
25-May-2013
[7926]
Cool!
Pekr
25-May-2013
[7927]
cool :-)