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World: r4wp

[#Red] Red language group

Kaj
29-Oct-2012
[3102x3]
Daniel, thanks for testing. The GTK error is recent; I reported it 
last week or so. But I didn't get the float error with it, which 
makes me think I need to add back FPU initialisation to it
WebKit has been changing their API a lot, so the binding is only 
for the older version. Segfaults and such would be expected when 
fooling it. Also, the GTK binding is developed for GTK 2 at the moment. 
I'll update them when I start running newer versions myself
Anti-virus: should I suspect that we have to submit every build of 
every version of every program to all anti-virus vendors to get them 
recognised?
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3105]
Only if Red does stuff that will trip the heuristics, or be run on 
a system with AVG (since they require you to pay them money to revert 
a false positive diagnosis). Which we can't know ahead of time because 
those heruistics are unpublished and thus untrustable.
Kaj
29-Oct-2012
[3106]
Ah, another modern extortion scheme
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3107x3]
Yeah. The way it goes with AVG is that any false positive dispute 
is automatically rejected, and escalation to dispute that requires 
paid support. I have refused to use AVG ever since they refused to 
retract their false positive diagnosis of R3 alpha 94.
Or rather an earlier alpha, the last private alpha build before we 
switched to public alphas.
It was a while ago, so pardon any mixups with the version.
Kaj
29-Oct-2012
[3110]
Good tip. I'll use the same policy when advising Windows users
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3111x2]
MS has a really great false positive dispute process. I've never 
had a problem with them. Even in cases where the diagnosis isn't 
false as much as it is iffy, such as diagnostic tools that admins 
need to use but which you don't want non-admins to use, it just labels 
tham as "Medium Risk" and lets you choose to allow them to run if 
you like on a case-by-case basis.
The new Windows Defenfer in Win8 is pretty much a relabeled Microsoft 
Security Essentials with a few more features. Haven't had a problem 
with MSE yet that wasn't resolvable.
DocKimbel
29-Oct-2012
[3113x2]
I've just got an answer from F-Prot, they just whitelisted the sample 
binary I've sent to them but didn't send me any info about their 
heuristics... So I think that in order to avoid loosing my time trying 
to get any info from those AV vendors, I'll just add a specific signature 
to Red generated binaries, so that they can be whitelisted by all 
AV vendors (when possible). I can't see what else I could do, except 
warn users about some crappy AV software.
So, I could just add a static c-string!, what good unique signature 
sequence could we use, and how long should it be?
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3115]
Be sure to not include such a signature in Red's output of user binaries. 
We want to keep Red itself whitelisted even if Red's users decide 
to make malware with it.
DocKimbel
29-Oct-2012
[3116x2]
Good point.
OTOH, that could be a good selling point for Red. ;-)
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3118]
Not for long, since they'll stop whitelisting Red. It's similar to 
leaking your authenticode signature to malware writers.
Kaj
29-Oct-2012
[3119]
What point is virus scanning if you need generic signatures that 
it will let through?
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3120]
Afaik, authenticode is supposed to handle that process, at least 
to a certain extent. You cryptographically sign your binaries so 
when they do bad things there's someone to blame. If your binaries 
aren't signed, they're assumed to be bad by some people.
Kaj
29-Oct-2012
[3121]
That's signing the complete binary, that's much stronger than adding 
a signature
BrianH
29-Oct-2012
[3122]
Right, it's definitely better than a whitelist constant.
Arnold
29-Oct-2012
[3123]
All these anti-virus program makers tell you something you already 
knew: your software does not qualify as a virus or did not contain 
any known viruses.

Or you are 1 of the worst script kiddies. Or you managed to disguise 
the virus relly well this time ;)
Kaj
29-Oct-2012
[3124]
Fixed the FPU configuration. The bindings are in good shape again
DocKimbel
30-Oct-2012
[3125]
Great! :-)
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3126x3]
I see Ruud prepared a new batch for you :-)
I'm sitting next to a Windows 7 Ultimate machine to test the bindings, 
but it's unusable because it has been updating itself unasked for 
hours, on shutdown and on startup, and now won't start up anymore
An Internet connection for a Windows machine is close to a lethal 
injection
AdrianS
30-Oct-2012
[3129]
why don't you just disable the auto  downloading?
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3130]
It would need to start up first to reach that...
AdrianS
30-Oct-2012
[3131x3]
well, that's the first thing I do when I set up a Windows machine
but then, I'm pretty anal about keeping the system up-to-date
what happens if you go to the "last known good configuration" - F8 
on startup?
DocKimbel
30-Oct-2012
[3134]
I do as Adrian: first thing when installing any Windows version, 
disable auto-updating.
Pekr
30-Oct-2012
[3135]
I never ever had issue caused by Windows auto-updating. You guys 
don't like Windows so much, that you are seeing a ghosts :-)
DocKimbel
30-Oct-2012
[3136]
Second thing I do: install Microsoft Security Essential (it's free) 
and forget about all common antivirus issues (slowness, instability, 
intrusive ads, false positives, ...).
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3137x2]
It's not my machine, and safe mode or F8 doesn't provide an option 
to restore the configuration
Petr, this machine just became a ghost
Pekr
30-Oct-2012
[3139x2]
format C:
:-)
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3141]
It's already planned to install Linux Mint
DocKimbel
30-Oct-2012
[3142]
Kaj: I get a lot of type casting warnings since the last commit on 
GTK-widget.reds, could you please check if they are legitimate or 
not?
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3143]
I get one on the GTK binding and one on WebKit. I haven't seen them 
before the 0.3.0 merge
NatasjaK
30-Oct-2012
[3144x2]
All that talk about my machine, I touched one button and it awoke 
again ;-)
Wich doesn't mean the problems are solved, but it's a start ;-\
DocKimbel
30-Oct-2012
[3146x2]
Kaj: the changes I did today are generating a lot of warnings with 
GTK binding, I will have a look at it later to see if it's a bug 
or if the binding code needs some minor changes.
Natasja: seems that you'll have a brand new system soon. :-)
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3148]
Is it correct that Red/System can't print Unicode on Windows like 
the other systems?
NatasjaK
30-Oct-2012
[3149]
DocKimbel: That would be very welcome :-)
PeterWood
30-Oct-2012
[3150]
AFAIK, windows consoles only supporting Windows 8-bit codepages or 
UTF16. Red/System can print the full range of UTF-8 characters (as 
can REBOL) but the console can't display them.
Kaj
30-Oct-2012
[3151]
Ah, right, I'd have to use UTF-16 source text