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World: r4wp

[Ann-Reply] Reply to Announce group

Bo
22-May-2013
[1953]
Carl must've been talking about writing SDL into R3-GUI then.  Sometimes 
(often) he speaks above my level.
Kaj
22-May-2013
[1954x3]
Nah, that's pretty much the same thing. All these considerations 
are Red details that aren't known to Carl
Another thing is that the classic SDL that's available everywhere, 
currently the 1.2.x series, is single-window. To get a proper R3 
host with multiple windows you need SDL 1.3, which is usable but 
is in a very stretched out development process, like R3. 1.3 has 
Android and iOS support, so you'd usually want that, anyway, but 
it's harder to get ready to download binaries for it, and I haven't 
tested it with my binding yet
I had been thinking over time about porting R3 on SDL when the time 
came, but it never did, so I have no plans for it now
GrahamC
22-May-2013
[1957]
What about something like FLTK ?
Kaj
22-May-2013
[1958]
C++ and OpenGL, GLUT I think. Bleurgh
GrahamC
22-May-2013
[1959x2]
sizeof(fltk::Widget) == 60.

The "core" (the "hello" program compiled & linked with a static FLTK 
library using gcc on a 486 and then stripped) is 82K.
The FLUID program (which includes every widget) is 352k.
Still fits on a 720K disk
Kaj
22-May-2013
[1961x2]
That's nice, but it's still C++, and mandatory 3D hardware, I think
They also have conflicting development branches, worse than SDL
GrahamC
22-May-2013
[1963]
Support for OpenGL overlay hardware on both X11 and WIN32. Emulation 
if none
Kaj
22-May-2013
[1964]
So hard to get on other platforms and less supported PCs
GrahamC
22-May-2013
[1965x3]
http://www.fltk.org/doc-2.0/html/index.html
FLTK (pronounced "fulltick") is a LGPL'd C++ graphical user interface 
toolkit for X (UNIX®), OpenGL®, Microsoft® Windows®, OS/X, and several 
other platforms.
Trying to see what other platforms means
Bo
22-May-2013
[1968]
LGPL couldn't be integrated into R3 because of conflicts with the 
Apache licensing model, right?
Kaj
22-May-2013
[1969x2]
Yes, the major three, Linux only if you have drivers for your hardware, 
and little chance to get on other platforms
No, Apache only has a problem with GPL
GrahamC
22-May-2013
[1971x2]
Heh, also available on AmigaOS4
In contrast to libraries like Qt and wxWidgets, FLTK uses a more 
lightweight design and restricts itself to GUI functionality. Because 
of this, the library is very small (the FLTK "Hello World" program 
is around 100 KiB), and is usually statically linked. It also avoids 
complicated macros and separate code preprocessors, and does not 
use the following advanced C++ features: templates, exceptions, RTTI 
or, for FLTK 1.x, namespaces. Combined with the modest size of the 
package, this leads to a relatively short learning curve for new 
users.[citation needed]


These advantages come with corresponding disadvantages. FLTK offers 
fewer widgets than most GUI toolkits and, because of its use of non-native 
widgets, does not have native look-and-feel on any platform.
Andreas
22-May-2013
[1973]
SDL binding for R3 shouldn't be too hard. (Of course that doesn't 
help with the SDL 1.2 vs 1.3 issues Kaj nicely summarised.)
Pekr
22-May-2013
[1974]
Bo - I wonder if you know about Cyphre's intent to accelerate View 
anyway, so imo Carl just misses important info on what is actually 
going on ;-)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rebol/6MMlv-E3j-E
Cyphre
23-May-2013
[1975]
I don't think you would gain anything by using SDL to get R3GUI faster. 
AFAIK SDL has no 2d graphics support...it's just low-level lib for 
handling the OpenGL or 2d framebuffer. There is no support for 2d 
vector graphics, font rendering etc. so you'll end with the same 
needs for the UI engine in the end.

As Pekr mentioned above, with the new R3 graphics code reorganization 
I'm working on it will be possible to even create a compositor based 
on SDL though if anyone is interested in doing that.
Robert
23-May-2013
[1976]
or use OpenGL directly ;-)
Arnold
23-May-2013
[1977x2]
@Kaj, you are unstoppable!! 
So many times as well I have no clue what it is all about. :\
I found out I do not need JNI though, no  need to program my fridge.
Kaj
23-May-2013
[1979]
Java is way too bloated for fridges; they should run on Red :-)
Pekr
23-May-2013
[1980]
I want red fridge :-)
PeterWood
23-May-2013
[1981]
There you go - cheap at half the price - http://www.very.co.uk/swan-sr9051r-60cm-fridge-freezer---red/1119903640.prd
Kaj
23-May-2013
[1982]
:-)
Bo
23-May-2013
[1983]
That's a pretty small fridge compared to what we are using.
Kaj
23-May-2013
[1984]
It's a [Red]uced fridge
DideC
24-May-2013
[1985]
Bo: In Europe there are "Fridge" (like the Red one above) and "American 
fridge" like

http://www.very.co.uk/samsung-rsg5ucrs-american-style-frost-free-fridge-freezer---stainless-steel/1195012798.prd?browseToken=%2fb%2f4536%2fr%2f100
Bo
24-May-2013
[1986x2]
Moving to ~Chit Chat.
Thanks, Robert and Saphirion team!
GrahamC
24-May-2013
[1988x4]
Robert, it would be useful if everyone on your team adopted the same 
mdp style and template
I was parsing your mdp docs to convert to epub and found some have 
authors or not, dates or not, tables were done differently etc
Robert, you've uploaded the reactors documentation ... but I was 
under the impression reactors have been removed!
So, shouldn't we just delete that reactor stuff?
Robert
24-May-2013
[1992x2]
MDP style: Well, we need a pretty printer ;-)
Reactors: I just packed everything on the docs dir we have as a start. 
So, yes, we need to sort it out, get rid of the old stuff etc. So 
feel free to delete it and send a pull-request.
GrahamC
24-May-2013
[1994]
And is there any point in uploading the html docs?  Since they have 
to be generated
Robert
24-May-2013
[1995]
No, as said I just used the docs dir and didn't went through it. 
Well, seems next time we prepare it a bit better.
GrahamC
24-May-2013
[1996x2]
Ok, I'll figure out how to send a pull request on these
As long as other people agree .. it would be painful for you to have 
to update the html docs each time the mdp ones are changed
Robert
24-May-2013
[1998]
This coult be done with a commit hook on our side, but yes, HTML 
is not needed.
GrahamC
24-May-2013
[1999x3]
Looks like a number of other docs are not there.
validation-proposal, dialog-system, gob-capture, save-state etc
or I just missed seeing where they are :(
Gregg
26-May-2013
[2002]
Thanks for noting the blog update Petr. Nice to hear he's enjoying 
himself so much. Maybe we'll get him back into REBOL when he sees 
that he can build Roku stuff in Red.