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[!REBOL3 Host Kit]

Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[262]
Pekr, thanks for your useful feedback, some reactions:

PAGE

margin should allow to set 4 sides

 - this is done by using ORIGIN and MARGIN pair!s in the proposal, 
 I agree, we can use MARGIN with two pairs instead of that

origin should replace scroll
 - ok, makes sense if we accept the point above

PARA


indent - INDENT should define rectangular space at the beginning 
of the paragraph, the left right orientation would be chosen according 
to the horizontal align settings in each  paragraph. The value for 
indent could be pair! (to define the space in both ways) or number! 
to define just the horizontal indentation for the first paragraph 
line only.


spacing - here I'd use SPACING [pair!] for additional space between 
chars (X axis) and lines (Y axis). For space around paragraph (top, 
left, bottom, right) I would use PADDING.


paging - IMO linking of text between gobs at the C level would bring 
us lot of complexity. I still think we should provide functionality 
that can be useful at REBOL script level to handle the linkage.


runaround - this needs to be well thought so it is flexible enough 
once we allow to use embedded gobs in the text flow


alignment - I'd leave it as in the current proposal for now. Which 
means horizontal align can be set per paragraph vertical alignment 
per 'page'(=GOB)


I'll be updating the current document soon to reflect all the changes 
from yours and other useful suggestions. I'll post here once new 
version is online.
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[263x4]
OK, sounds reasonable, and I agree in most of the stuff ....
I am just thinking loud now - it seems MS Word has choosen to not 
complicate the matter much. They have page setting (margins), and 
then they have paragraph settings. In paragraphs, they just use indentation 
(left, right, special (first line positive/negative), and nothing 
more. Spacing between paragraphs is done by integer value - number 
of pixels before and after the paragraph, plus special setting, that 
two consecutive paragraphs of the same name don't add the space after 
the paragraph (dunno why they introduced it, but they probably found 
that practically usefull)
I agree, that paging could or even should be solved in higher level. 
It will not be fastest though, so we will see, how it goes.
Indent - is your proposal sufficient? You allow using either issue,e.g. 
3x6 (3px left, 6px right), or integer, e.g. 6px (first line indented 
by 6px) - what if I want to set both. And most probably I want it 
...
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[267]
you don't need any high performance for the linkage part(if there 
is enough support in the native part)...that's why I think it should 
be at the REBOL level
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[268x4]
As for padding - as you can see from MS Word model (please not I 
use it as an example, we don't need to necessarily rely on that) 
does not use padding left, righ - that is done by indentation ...
please not = please note
So in your model, we can set indent 3x6, and we can add further space 
to the left or right by using padding 3x6, so in total the para will 
be shifted by 6x12?
I just want to understand you :-)
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[272x2]
padding - I think being able to define whole padding box in one field 
is more intuitive, but I'm open. If we use padding and indent fields 
what would you propose for the current 'padding  feature?
so in total the para will be shifted by 6x12? No, in your case it 
would shift most probably only the first  line in the para by 3px 
from the PADDING origin. If your line heihght would be smaller than 
6px it would shit also second line etc.
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[274]
it would shit also second line
 - nice typo :-)
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[275x2]
|
__| <--padding
                   |<--indent
     ______| Paragraph text is here...
oops, nice typo :)
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[277x2]
Hmm, OK, re-reading your indent proposal - is that only for indentation 
purpose of the first line?
If so, then you need only integer, no? The rest is done by padding
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[279]
in the proposal yes, but I'd enhance it for the Y axis value. The 
number of lines could be the second value in the pair!
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[280x3]
I mean - indentation typically defines just how much the first line 
is shifted left/right (99% right). Ms Word adds ability to shift 
whole paragraph left and right (indent-left, indent-right). That 
would be don by padding in your case?
ah, now I undestand
So you want to allow to indent more than one line (row) right?
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[283x2]
imagein the PADDING as bounding box of the paragraph + space around 
it..and the INDENT as rectangular space that eats part of the bounding 
box in the top left or right corner.
maybe I should make simple image...?
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[285x6]
no, I understand it ...
MS Word:

|
__| <--indent-left
                       |<--indent-first line
     ______| Paragraph text is here...
ah, wrong ....
| <--- page margin, here 0
__| <--indent-left
             |<--indent-first line
__| Paragraph text is here...
Simply put, MS uses simplified model:


indent - set left or right indentation, plus special indentation 
for the first line (in pixels)
padding - before, after paragraph value in pixels ...
When I translate it is just the same :-) You allow indentation of 
more than one line as a bonus :-)
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[291]
http://cyphre.mysteria.cz/pics/padding-indent.png
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[292]
I think you can add that pic to your document ...
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[293]
this one is just quickly sketched..I'll be redoing the current picture 
in the doc to show  it  all better and with updated names etc.
Rebolek
21-Oct-2010
[294]
Indent should support negative value.
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[295]
but only in the X axis I guess
Rebolek
21-Oct-2010
[296]
Not to move it back, but to allow
     this kind of paragraph.
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[297]
yup
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[298]
But negative indent just means - start at the first pixel from left 
for the first indented lines, use the value as a padding-left value 
from the left. Paragraph itself should stay where it is ....
Cyphre
21-Oct-2010
[299]
yes, it would be like another padding-left from Y line
ChristianE
21-Oct-2010
[300]
Just to make sure I'm not missing on latest releases - there is no 
A108 or A109 host-kit version available yet?
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[301]
seems to be so ...
Henrik
21-Oct-2010
[302]
are there any special cases for bullet points?
Maxim
21-Oct-2010
[303x2]
cyphre, I really like the Indent which allows Y value as well.
makes it easy to put something there.
Pekr
21-Oct-2010
[305]
Hmm, here's how I understand bullet points in MS Word - they allow 
you to choose various symbols, or numbers. You can have even number 
hierarchies. But then they made it rather easy. Simply put, indentation 
of paragraph defines, where bullet point starts. In our case, it 
is going to be pad-left value in paragraph. And then they use special 
inden - in our case we could use indent with just single integer 
value - that defines indentation of bullet point and text which follows 
it.


Typically the text is block-aligned in such a case, but you can also 
set it otherwise ....
Carl
23-Oct-2010
[306x3]
A109 host-kit is being tested. See !REBOL3 for link if you want to 
help test it. But, it contains no improvements on the host-kit side... 
all changes right now are focused on the core lib.


But, if you run A109 and type xtest you will see the resident test 
extension run... so we know it's working at least that well.
Pekr... on MS Word, it puzzles me how such a horrible product has 
made it as a world standard this long.
BTW, why is this chat in host-kit area?
Henrik
23-Oct-2010
[309x2]
Related to text handling discussion, which I suppose occurs at the 
host-kit level. But it should probably have a separate group.
text handling = rich text handling, sorry
Maxim
23-Oct-2010
[311]
doing a bit of stress-testing... I've just loaded a 15MB polygonal 
model of a tree in my 3d system ... it has ~350000 polygons and ~180000 
vertices.

a bit slow using the current unoptimized Old-school OpenGL commands, 
but I'm still averaging about 10 frames a sec on my 4 year old mobile 
nvidia GPU (which is like 16 times slower than an average desktop 
card of today ).