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World: r3wp

[!REBOL3 GUI]

Robert
11-Oct-2011
[7299]
So, I see no one is really interested in this R3 GUI stuff... I'm 
wondering a bit but anyway... I think doing public releases might 
not be worth the effort.
Pekr
11-Oct-2011
[7300x2]
Robert - I think that it is not accurate, that noone is interested 
in the R3 GUI. IMO we all are, it is just that each of us is busy 
elsewhere. If you look into the past of this group, or in the old 
GUI (Carl's one) old days, it was mostly me and 1-2 users to do some 
comments, studying code, etc. It is about the general lack of man-power. 
E.g. shadwolf claimed, he can do tree view in few hours, but is refusing 
to, and you better don't read the long blog chat. It is also about 
lost confidence of many rebollers into R3 in general. Or just maybe 
- ppl being in wait mode, untill Carl reappears?
As for me - "I would like to help", and I will at some point, at 
least with testing. But got my own project 2Zone moving, awaiting 
LED Screen arrival and needing to do many arrangements. I can't surely 
code tree-view,but I can test, even privately, for anyone who asks 
me. Not much next 3-5 weeks though ....
Endo
11-Oct-2011
[7302]
Robert: you are wrong.  As Pekr said many of us are waiting and busy 
with something else. I downloaded all the RMA R3 stuff, tested all 
GUI examples (found some crash problems btw) I really would like 
to help/write a tree style, but I'm not a good Rebol coder I'm afraid.
So please keep up the work.
Sunanda
11-Oct-2011
[7303]
Robert -- an R3 GUI just isn't one of my priorities just now.


While  there is no likely target date for a beta release of R3, all 
my REBOL development is on R2.


I was happy to help debug R3 alphas while that project had some momentum, 
and I may be again in the future, But right now, I just do not have 
the time for what I have to consider to be speculative projects.

I hope you do get the help and feedback you need.
james_nak
11-Oct-2011
[7304]
Robert, I am in the same boat working on an R2 application when I 
get the time to even work on that. I do understand your frustration 
though after listening to all the concern.  As Endo said, please 
keep up the good work.
BrianH
11-Oct-2011
[7305]
I will be more actively interested when I start having to write code 
that requires any GUI at all, but what I'm working on right now doesn't 
even need a web interface. All batch and server stuff, and almost 
all the REBOL stuff is R3. This can't last forever, so I will eventually 
need a GUI. I am working on ODBC though.
Robert
12-Oct-2011
[7306x2]
Well, we all have a hell lot to do. There are just a some simple 
facts:


- making public releases cost us time. Not horrible lot but anyway...

- people are interested to take a look at the code and run the tests...
- maybe we get some feedback

All nice, but it doesn't move us forward faster.


I'm not frustrated I'm just wondering.... there are still a lot of 
excuses why R3 can't be used (which is wrong) but only a very few 
people try to build something with it.
Anyway... we continue with our development but public releases will 
have lower priority. We are using our stuff to build some small tools, 
we will publish. Than you might take a look what's possible.
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7308x3]
Well, that contradicts a bit expectation, that RMA's GUI is RT's 
officially endorsed GUI to be bundled with R3. OTOH there are no 
official R3 releases anyway, so ....
I understand that you are focusing resources as much as possible, 
otoh it is a bit dangerous aproach - R3 GUI saw rather intense concept 
changes during last year. Anyone eventually willing to give it a 
try once time permits will think twice, as recent public release 
could be pretty much outdated in few weeks, API wise, etc. There 
should imo be a way, that upon some request or bunch of requests, 
public release is done e.g once in few months?
But that's just theoretical situation anyway ....
Ladislav
12-Oct-2011
[7311]
Anyone eventually willing to give it a try once time permits will 
think twice
 - excuses?
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7312x2]
no, just real-life aproach. If there is a risk, that half year SW 
might be outdated API-wise, I would at least check how safe I am 
using last published distro,no? But - everything is solvable - those 
who really want, surely would find their way to the latest stuff 
...
Ladislav - those might be just the same "excuses" as with R3 ... 
some ppl claimed, that they are not using R3, as it is not known, 
if Carl will develop it any further ... while Carl stated his intention 
to do so ...
Ladislav
12-Oct-2011
[7314x2]
That are not the same excuses. For core, the excuses are, that Carl 
is not developing. For R3 GUI, the excuses are that we *are* developing.
;-p
Robert
12-Oct-2011
[7316]
to give it a try once time permits

 - It didn't in the past, so high chances are that it won't in the 
 future too. Further it might be 1-2 persons. I take the risk of loosing 
 those...
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7317]
hmm, that makes R3 GUI a private, mostly a closed effort. The only 
question which remains now is - once R3 development is re-established, 
is R3 GUI becoming part of official distribution, or not? What's 
Carl's take on that? :-)
Henrik
12-Oct-2011
[7318]
That would depend if Carl approves it, and AFAIK he has not looked 
at any of the changes yet. However, it won't affect the development 
of the R3 GUI, whether he approves it or not. It will still be made.
Robert
12-Oct-2011
[7319]
Exactly.
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7320]
ah, so it might be just a separate package,like RebGUI is to VID 
... yes, that's possible too ... we just did not want to have many 
GUIs available. But R3 GUI is in limbo anyway, so ....
Ladislav
12-Oct-2011
[7321]
we just did not want to have many GUIs available

 - that is pure theory. Currently, R3GUI is the only available alternative 
 working with the present interpreter version.
Robert
12-Oct-2011
[7322]
and: Than you need to take action and change it. It's not a "musical 
request programm" where you want something and it will happen.
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7323]
No, not a musical request program, just whole REBOL ecosystem being 
 a hilarious parody ....
Ladislav
12-Oct-2011
[7324]
...And, R3GUI is not in limbo, it is being developed
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7325x2]
I know ...
Will your planning app (which abbreviation I forgot - NNLP?) version 
2 be done in R3?
Ladislav
12-Oct-2011
[7327x3]
No, NLPP 2.0 is already being tested, and adjusted (finishing touches), 
in R2
BTW, it is not a "plannig app"
Rather it can be called a "Performace pricing" program, i.e. a program 
implementing a performance pricing methodology.
Pekr
12-Oct-2011
[7330]
So the GUI we can see in screenshots is modified RebGUI? Looks decent 
enough. Similar skin would be nice tohave for R3 too ....
Ladislav
12-Oct-2011
[7331]
So the GUI we can see in screenshots is modified RebGUI?
 - yes
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7332x2]
How goes the GUI?
I have a RebGUI application of some hundreds of screens and sadly 
it is not very brisk these days presumably due to GC occurring at 
inconvenient times, or just using too much ram.  Any stress testing 
down with R3GUI with hundreds to screens?
Henrik
16-Dec-2011
[7334]
it's not easy to do stress testing, due to a specific bug not yet 
fixed by Carl, which prevents the creation of complex layouts without 
crashes.
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7335]
Has Carl promised to fix it?
Henrik
16-Dec-2011
[7336]
he has not responded on the bug at all.
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7337]
Must be very frustrating ... and dangerous to base a business on 
such a situation
Henrik
16-Dec-2011
[7338]
Saphirion's main app is built in R2, and is a very large project, 
so the issue is currently "just" frustrating. Some R3 apps are being 
built, though.
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7339]
do you have any such issues as i experience?
Henrik
16-Dec-2011
[7340]
no, the app we build has about 12-15 windows, and we are using a 
different branch of RebGUI with our own fixes.
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7341]
You wouldn't see issues with so few windows
Henrik
16-Dec-2011
[7342]
if you have that many, it's probably a good idea to build each screen 
on the fly, rather than keeping them all in memory.
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7343]
most of them are ...
Henrik
16-Dec-2011
[7344]
do you destroy one when leaving it?
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7345]
just close them ... and let rebol do GC on them
Endo
16-Dec-2011
[7346]
You may try to put each windows into separate objects to make all 
the set-words are local. Then set them none manually when the window 
closed then call recycle. This may work?
GrahamC
16-Dec-2011
[7347]
the problem is that i may not see any benefit until I swtich a few 
100 windows across
Robert
17-Dec-2011
[7348]
jsut a short update: We build our first real-life R3-GUI based tool. 
It's a little thing but needed in a lot of companies. It's a tool 
you can interactively create things like heat-maps with. Heat-maps 
for how your IT system landscape looks like, organizational things 
etc. It's a nested layout created with color-mapping for visualization.