World: r3wp

Yes. But it was not "Flash stepped in", but  "java  was  kicked out" 
and  flash filled the gap.  Better Gui for designers for nimations 
too. But now its flash instaled everywhere, and people cringe to 
use it for serious  apps.

And  my sense  for fairness steps in andicry: "Wait! Wrong history!!" 
;)

yes, I know. IIRC it was MS who screwed, no? They created jvm with 
Win-only extensions .... They had the power to do so ...

ah, I have the same sense when thinking about the Amiga - it was 
much better OS imo too :-)

Few weeks ago I looked into some View demos, and I still think, that 
if we do it right, and even prepare those demos for plug-in, it still 
can influence some ppl ....

Yep. And a popular ide  which silently  used them. Good work, both 
vm and  ide. But  it worked not on the others. And  some things where 
 chngedfrom thestandard, so stuff fro other ideasdid not work well. 
of course every bug was javas  fault, not that  of MS.

Waht  we need is IOS without competing  with IOS..

IOS is no more supported

I asked Cindy, if I can sell my copy I did not manage to sell here. 
So, if anyone wants IOS cheapo, just contact me :-)

I think that Carl has the same idea - Altissimo - rebservices, plug-in 
or stand-alone client, small reblets ... could work ...

If  it gets ever implemented yes.

Petr: IOS is no more supported is that official

Ifit works  seamless with apopular browser, like  flash etc, even 
more.

eh, probably not official ....

the  problem with  IOS is, it was the  right  library, and without 
it  rebol cant play  out its  real strength.

...it's just that we use IOS to support Rebol.org

And it cant be cloned becausethat would  hurt RT. Well, could be 
cloned, we are justto nice^^

IOS is nice ... imo we need R3 infastructure fast. We then need some 
C coders to take-over the open-sourced parts. As for a plug-in, browser 
support was good enough imo, but it did not support certificates, 
good installation/upgrade process etc.

Volker - if IOS is not supported, noone will care for cloning ...

For me the biggest problem with the plug-in is no access to the DOM

there is a way to call javascript, oristhatbroken? from thereto DOM 
the  browser. :)

But most people would say if I have to call JavaScript to access 
the DOM why bother with Rebol.

if i have  to write html to display something, why botherwith javascript?^^

Because whole your app is in rebol? I am not designing my app to 
navigate html, I want full View app, so what's with DOM :-)

that javascript can be build by a little library.

Peter wanted it^^

And for now  browsers have better layouting for text

so if you  are not thinking of a full View app, then what do you 
plan to use Rebol for? As an js replacement?

for the logicparts i  do now  on the server.

what  i would do now with a local webserver.

Yes I think I would prefer to be able to use Rebol instead of JavaScript 
for anything processor intensive.

/view could still do animations, menues and such.

say a reblet left or top, tabs, or text html, for painting /view.

below

From my observation Rebol calculations are much faster than JavaScript 
especially for integers

And: AFAIK DOM means  other plugins  to. IConrtol the viedo :)

I'm sure that parse is faster than Javascript's Regex engine too

Isimply have more rebol-skills than javascript skills^^

for speedi would still try javascript+java, but for comfort..

ok, now I understand ... I know that current DOM-via-js is not very 
much powerfull, but we have at least something. Or we need proper 
XML parser then?

I have no big clue. AFAIK javascript can call everything, and rebol 
can call javascript. And  javascript can be generated.

The main issue with javascript+java is if java isn't installed on 
the cleint's browser - you then ahve a big download - as Petr has 
pointed-out a rebol plug-in would be smaller than some JavaScript 
downloads.....

Drawback is, AFAIK javascript can not call rebol. which would be 
nice  for buttons and such.

Yes, butthe jitwould be better, and ifiaim for speed..

And with googles compileri may  beable tohave a pure javascriptversion 
from the same source.

Hmm, shouldchange the keyboard..

..so you really want a Rebcode plug-in ;-)

Naa,  native is still faster.

A raw hotspot withoutall the libs, and  rebolon top :)

uh, it looks like you talk in some cipher :-)