World: r3wp

That last question is too short.  Would RT appreciate the potential 
of having bureaucrats trying to stick their hands in the cookie jar? 
  is more what I meant.

And getting serious;   We all love REBOL, our being here is testament 
to that.  BUT...  Would you deem REBOL as a language that could be 
taught to 14 year olds and have the principal of a school think "Yes, 
I've prepared my students for the IT world to the best of my abilities"? 
 Honestly.


imho; REBOL is maybe a little too different to be the "Yep, if you 
know REBOL, you know enough to build a career in programming" language.

Yes, that I'm afraid is true. My son is studying VB now and I am 
for right now waiting to show him the Rebol way. In some ways it's 
like learning an instrument in that some are more likely to lead 
to jobs or bands for that matter. At some point statistically speaking, 
that is, you would have to learn another "accepted" language.

OTOH - I would not taught them anything like JAVA too. Maybe some 
basic. It is not even about particular language, but a bit of alghoritmical 
thinking ... and maybe Basic like syntax ...

So - the dialect of REBOL? :-)

Yeah; Turing is for algorithm thinking.  It's a Niklaus Wirth, Pascal 
variant, designed explicitly for teaching.  Which means some company 
in Toronto is probably building a rocket engine control system with 
it as we speak.  :)

It'd be fun to get REBOL into the classrooms.

But it'd take some plans and (probably) some pedagogically oriented 
libraries to beat a language like Turing that is described as "Designed 
for computer science instruction".

Sunanda;  I'm starting to take a deep interest in RitC.  But I have 
doubts.  Doubts that need to be squashed.  Sadly, Ontario (a fairly 
vast province) has standardised curriculum now.  It's all schools 
or no schools here.  I'm not a fan, the excuse was that some kids 
in some boards were getting sub-par educations, ignoring the fact 
that some boards were providing above-par educations and instead 
picking a middle-of-the-road bland education for all.

I've been lecturing accounts & tax at Manchester recently and I've 
had a chance to chat with some of the programming students during 
breaks. I think all of them hated whatever they used in college !! 
Some of them state that what they were taught bore no relation to 
what abilities they now need in the work place.

If you want to get a job as a grunt programmer in a big company, 
using whatever tools they tell you are in fashion, REBOL is not the 
right tool for you--though it may be a nice support language. If 
you want to think about hard problems and algorithms, it's as good 
as Lisp/Scheme within limits (e.g. tail recursion), and easier to 
play around with. If you want to get the job done and either make 
the tool call yourself, or can convince the people who do that REBOL 
is up to the task, it's great. And if you aren't a CS major, but 
know that computers and programming will affect you in business, 
and you want to be able to to some "light" programming, I think it's 
great.

I think REBOL has merit in the classroom but it can't be from the 
angle of what you need to be an IT programmer.  It has to be more 
about theory and creativity to make machines do amazing things.  
I am afraid though that your all or nothing situation and be ready 
by the fall schedule doesn't sound like a good combination.  You 
would want some real world, already done it here in this setting, 
kind of platform to start from to move into that kind of education 
space.

Rod; agreed.  It is not in my nature to aggress when it comes to 
business, play, or life so if this is pursued it'll be a local night 
school kinda start.  First step is an attempt at an Altme parse lecture 
surrounded by friendlies.  :)

I have taken a stab at online training when blackboard.com came out, 
did a short expert course in my primary language (Progress 4GL) to 
some friends.  It was an interesting experiment and very worth doing. 
 At the time though the technology parts via the web was very limited 
(still is really but even worse then).  I wonder if the emergence 
of VoIP, video and flash has moved us past how interaction might 
be done differently to just the same with different delivery mechanism.

I look at things like Easy VID and Easy Draw and wonder what the 
possibilities could be to expand on that in place active content.

What's the problem ? Rebol can be used for teaching programming, 
just like any other language. It has the three basic features: sequence, 
selection and iteration, so it can do anything :)

Seriously, if you can find a programming course in another language, 
perhaps you can translate into rebol on the fly.

I think Rebol can be used in the classroom in liew of a mainstream 
language based if nothing else on the fact that by the time the kids 
are ready there is apt to be a "new" mainstream language. what is 
important is learning to think and from my experiance rebol gets 
in the way far less than other mainstream languages.

Can anyone point me to some place where I could get rebol/services 
source code?
I can not find it in usual places.... ?!?!?!?!?   :(

Is it right way to go if I plan an app that will need to exchange 
data over net ?

Compressed at http://www.rebol.net/rs/server.rand client.r  with 
the standard  save ... ctx-services thingy.

I'm pretty sure this is Gabriele's later release that has support 
for large file transfers.

I would say yes, LNS is still a good plan.  It's in use with DevBase.

Ahaaa..... so it was only matter of path..... http://www.rebol.net/rs
instead of http://www.rebol.net/rebservices..... :)
Thanks!

Here is one question for you guys:

I want to upload file on ftp. 
I know I can do it like this:
write/binary ftp://user:[pass-:-website-:-com] read/binary %file

Or I am supossed to do it.... it just wont let me....


>>  write/binary ftp://user:[pass-:-ftp-:-site-:-com] read/binary %file.txt
** User Error: Cannot open a dir port in direct mode

** Near: write/binary ftp://user:[pass-:-ftp-:-site-:-com] read/binary %file.txt

I can read the contents of ftp rootdir with:
print read ftp://ftp.site.com/


But writing is not working.... What does it mean: "Cannot open a 
dir port in direct mode"?

Try this:  write/binary ftp://user:[pass-:-ftp-:-site-:-com]/file.txt read/binary 
%file.txt
Yoiu were trying to write to a directory, not a file.

Thanks Brian !!!! I just didnt see it yesterday evening.... :)

Another common issue with FTP is to set  system/schemes/ftp/passive 
to true.

I looked at available documentation, and can not find any advanced 
settings like that in there.....
Where can I find info like that ?
p.s. But I can always ask you guys :)

Ufffff......... I just found it in reb23 core documentation chapter 
11.... :) 
That's what you get when you rely on google... :)

Ftp problem again.... everything was working perfectly from march 
till now.... we changed internet provider yesterday and my scripts 
dont work any more :(
Here is the core of script where error is:

server: ftp://user:[pass-:-ftp-:-firm-:-com]/data
file: %file.zip
from-port: open/binary/direct lokal/:file
to-port: open/binary/new/direct server/:file

** Access Error: Network timeout
** Where: confirm
** Near: to-port: open/binary/new/direct server/:file

I can still connect with ftp applications....

Should I check ports and wich ones?

You can get more detail by doing this first:
	trace/net on
Rebol will print more information in the console.

At a deeper level, you can use Wireshark (open source program) to 
capture and analyse the ftp traffic.

Make sure the username does not contain any "@". It's often a problem, 
but may bring another kind of error.

Trace/net  did gave more info:

Its not my new internet provider... :)  its our old router used in 
a new way... :)
This is the message I get...
Username... pass.... OK.... and then:
Net-log: "Opening listen port 2655"
Net-log: [["PORT" port/locals/active-check] "200"]
Net-log: "200 PORT command successful"
Net-log: [["CWD" port/path] ["25" "200"]]
Net-log: "250 OK. Current directory is /apl"
Net-log: "Type: new"
Net-log: ["TYPE I" "200"]
Net-log: "200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary"
Net-log: [["STOR" port/target] ["150" "125"]]
Net-log: "Closing cmd port 2652 21"
Net-log: "Closing listen port 2655"
** Access Error: Network timeout
** Where: confirm
** Near: to-port: open/binary/new/direct server/:file

On what port should I focus?
It seams standard 20 and 21 are going thru....

I noticed UDP disabled in my router configuration... could it have 
something to do with my problem?

can you try this ?
system/schemes/ftp/passive: true

It does not help..... :(

As I wrote before... It worked without problem for half a year.... 
now I have new provider... if I connect my pc directly to WAN it 
works.... When I connect PC to my router lan port it does not.... 
Everything else works.... HTTP , FTP from Total commander... upload 
download...., torrents work....

Vladimir - what is your FTP user name? Does it contain @ char? If 
so, you need small patch. Look at how is Total commander FTP configured. 
It should work. Aren't you using proxy? You might install WireShark 
and watch packets, that is the very low level of networking,  you 
will see everything there. Then you could compare your Total Commander 
connection with your REBOL one and see, where they differ....

also - what are your directories? Simple ones? Without space? Or 
is there space in it?

user name is "visaprom.com"
Total commander is set up simply...
use passive is ON...
here is what is happening with ftp/passive: true:

Net-log: "215 UNIX Type: L8"
Net-log: ["PWD" "25"]
Net-log: {257 "/" is your current location}
Net-log: ["PASV" "227"]
Net-log: "227 Entering Passive Mode (194,9,94,127,235,183)"
Net-log: [["CWD" port/path] ["25" "200"]]

this is where it pauses and then:

Net-log: "Closing cmd port 3565 21"
** Access Error: Network timeout
** Where: confirm
** Near: to-port: open/binary/new/direct server/:file

so username contains .com? Not sure it is allowed or that url parser 
handless it correctly, but I might be wrong ...

do you have any other account to try?

He got passed the login stage - that's not the problem.

just a sec...

ok, so port/path? What is the path you are trying to access?

FTP runs over TCP, not UDP.

as I said... it works from other connections.... only problem is 
this new one in this office.... it has to be something with router.... 
Im looking configuration pages for two days now... :(

Does the FTP server identify itself anywhere in the log ?

So the same script works from other locations, right? Hmm, that is 
really weird ...

here is script result...

to-port: open/binary/new/direct server/:file

URL Parse: visaprom.com password ftp.visaprom.com none apl/ ik104.zip
Net-log: ["Opening" "tcp" "for" "FTP"]
Net-log: [none ["220" "230"]]

Net-log: {220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ----------}
Net-log: "220-You are user number 188 of 400 allowed."
Net-log: "220-Local time is now 11:33. Server port: 21."
Net-log: "220-This is a private system - No anonymous login"
Net-log: {220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.}

Net-log: {220 You will be disconnected after 15 minutes of inactivity.}
Net-log: [["USER" port/user] "331"]
Net-log: "331 User visaprom.com OK. Password required"
Net-log: [["PASS" port/pass] "230"]
Net-log: {230-User visaprom.com has group access to:  www     }
Net-log: "230 OK. Current restricted directory is /"
Net-log: ["SYST" "*"]
Net-log: "215 UNIX Type: L8"
Net-log: ["PWD" "25"]
Net-log: {257 "/" is your current location}
Net-log: ["PASV" "227"]
Net-log: "227 Entering Passive Mode (194,9,94,127,216,138)"
Net-log: [["CWD" port/path] ["25" "200"]]